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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 01 NOVEMBER 2017 VOL 44 NO 18

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PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 1st November, 2017

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER

COMPLETION BIO-DATA FORMS

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I have to advise all Hon. Members that they are required to complete and submit their bio-data forms by Thursday, 9th November, 2017.  The forms can be collected and returned to the office of the Director of Public Relations, Office Number 312, 3rd floor Parliament Building.   The bio-data is required for uploading on the Parliament website and the mobile App. 

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I have a list of Ministers who sent in their apologies; Hon. P. T. Zhanda, Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Hon. C. P. Chingosho, Hon. Dr. G. Gandawa, Hon. Eng. M. Madanha, Hon. S. Kasukuwere, Hon. Dr. Mombeshora, Hon. Dr. Bimha and Hon. Sen T. Muzenda.

HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  Good afternoon to you.  First of all, I think the issue I am going to bring is a very important issue to us as Members of Parliament. Some of us are sick, we never know and were never told someone is sick in hospital.  I would like the House to know that Hon. Mike Gava has not been feeling well and it is important that Members of Parliament do visit him.  Some have done that.  I say so because we take for granted the life that God has given us.  It is only proper that as Members of Parliament, when one of us is not well, we go and comfort them

The second issue that I want to bring to the attention of the House is that it is important for Members of Parliament to celebrate birthdays.  I would like to say happy birthday to Hon. Zalerah Makari who has turned 40 years, life begins at 40. 

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please be serious.

HON. MLISWA: I am sorry Madam Speaker, on a more serious note, we saw the letter written by the Speaker to us in terms of our welfare.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think that letter was written to everybody.

          HON. MLISWA: Yes, it was. I would like to also talk about it because each one of us got the letter. It is up to each one of us to also talk about their input to this.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am being advised and it is very important to note that the letter is not for debate. This is why it was put in your pigeon holes. If you have some issues, better take your issues to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

          *HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I am on a point of privileges. Allow me to speak and then you can tell me. You cannot cut me before I speak. You are totally preempting. Let me finish. Allow me to finish – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

          Madam Speaker, you would appreciate that the issue of welfare of Members of Parliament has taken a lot of time. As you are aware, you know that the money is being finished. We want to know if the $50 000 that we are going to receive is in US dollar or bond notes. Do you know that it is now $25 000 as we speak because of inflation. How are we going to attend to such an issue because I believe you did not consider this issue that inflation is now at 50%, so we were supposed to get $75 000. The amount should be inflation adjusted because at the end we are going to get nothing.

          Furthermore, the more we delay the disbursements the more it affects the development on the ground. Government does not have adequate funding. We believe that the CDF augments Government’s programmes. What can you do with $5 000 that we are being given? People had gone to the banks to borrow on the strength that they would receive CDF. We take every word that you say in this House and we go and borrow funds.  Now, you are going to give me $5 000. How am I going to repay $50 000 when I was only given $5 000?  My point - that are we being serious about the welfare of the people when we give them $5 000 instead of the $50 000 that you talked about?  Issues such as the chiefs’ motor vehicles, funding is given. I am not saying they should not have them but equally as well, Members of Parliament should also receive what they will have been promised. 

On the issue of diplomatic passports, the minority have them. The majority do not have yet we have the same constituencies. What monetary issue is involved in the issue of diplomatic passports? You do not want to give us our status. We are looked down upon when we go out of the country. We have to queue when we travel with other MPs who have diplomatic passports. Our status is deplorable as we speak. As we look into these things, it would appear you do not want to recognise that Members of Parliament are doing a good job.

          When we go onto the ground there is no development. We are unable to go back to our constituencies. The political parties have different factions. There are now people on the ground contesting the forthcoming elections. Some of the MPs are not coming back in 2018 because they will contest in primary elections with candidates who are well funded. The reason why a lot of Members of Parliament do not come back is because this Parliament has failed to look into the issue of the Members.

          The Clerk of Parliament is getting his allowances and now he is busy distracting you. The Clerk travels in business class and he should never stop us from getting what we need. He travels in business class and his bosses, us the MPs in the economy class. Where in the world have you ever heard a worker who travels in the business class and the boss in the economy? That is the anomaly that I am talking about. The Presiding Officers go on holiday and I have spoken about it. What do you want us to do? Our children are not going to school but you want to read in the newspapers that an MP has stolen this and that. Our names are soiled. They look down upon us.

When journalists write they say Members of Parliament varikuchema chema. Who on earth can survive on $2 000 bond notes per month? Our welfare is not good and you seem to think that we are cry-babies. Madam Speaker, it is important that we should not put in abeyance the issue of allowances. We are going to pass a Budget and what Budget are we going to pass when that Budget does not look at our interests? Why were we doing budget consultations without any money? We are just going to be in hotels in Victoria Falls, eating hotel food and seeing the water. We want things that are practical. I thank you.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear your point of order and all the facts that you have made. You are repeating that same issue. If you had asked it as a question, we would have asked the Vice President to respond.   However, we are going to note down everything that you have said. We are going to look into it and at the same time, we continue executing work.

          *HON. MLISWA: The truth of the matter is that we have the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs - this is Parliament and we had the Leader of the House. We do not know who the Leader of the House is. We are not sure whether it is Hon. Mnangagwa or Hon. Bonyongwe. We asked you the same question last time. To whom do we appeal when we do not have the Leader of the House? There is no clarity in terms of who the head of Government business is.  The Minister of Parliamentary Affairs is here. 

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa. We responded to the issue of the Leader of the House.  If Parliament has not received any communication, it means it is the same Leader of the House who has been there before. We will continue with Vice President Mnangagwa.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO): Thank you Madam Speaker. – [HON. ZWIZWAI: The Leader of the House is Hon. Mphoko.] - No, you are wrong. I thank Hon Mliswa for that question. It is a straight forward thing. The Leader of Government Business in Parliament is the Minister here – [HON. MEMBERS: G40.] - Madam Speaker, I take great exceptions to be brought to 40 years, I am 77 years and I can never be G40. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – Please G77 is an international organisation – [Laughter.] – Yes, that is diplomacy – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order, Hon. Members, can we hear what the Vice President is saying? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order please, can we have order! – [HON. MLISWA: We cannot, this is not the ZANU PF Politburo.  This is Parliament!] – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker, the Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members, order please. May we have order please – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker, - [AN HON. MEMBER:  Address the Chair!] -   I though the Hon. Member …

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Vice President, yes, if you may address the Chair please.

          HON. MPHOKO: Madam Speaker, I though the Hon. Member wanted to be assisted.   [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, I am not hearing what the Hon. Vice President is saying – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is not saying anything!] -  You are making too much noise.

          HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order!

          HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker, the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is Hon. Bonyongwe - that is the Leader of the House.  I thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Vice President.  I think this is …we are getting this from the Vice President but I think we look towards having communication from the appointing authority. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, so that Parliament does not have confusion of which is which? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – May we please proceed with Questions without Notice!

          *HON. MUTSEYAMI:  On a point of clarity Madam Speaker.  This is the House of Parliament that represents the Republic of Zimbabwe.  As Hon. Speaker, you said that you have not been informed formally as to who the Leader of the House is and the entire country was listening.

          The Vice President then got up and said that the Leader of House is the Hon. Minister who was appointed last week, Hon. Bonyongwe and that Hon. Mnangagwa is no longer the Leader of the House.  Is this type of confusion in Government only or it applies to the entire ZANU PF? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order, may we have order please.  Hon. Members, I do not think there can be debate on this issue.  I think I have said it all that we are still waiting for communication – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, I do not think we can debate on this one. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, but he is going to write to us. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Questions without Notice, Hon. Holder!

          HON. MARIDADI:  On a point of clarity Madam Speaker!

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  There is a point of clarification here – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjections.] Huuh Hon. Zwizwai, what is wrong with you? Do you want me to send you out for nothing?  Hon. Maridadi!

          *HON. MARIDADI:  On a point of clarity Madam Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, please be clear to us …

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Before you come in Hon. Holder, its Hon. Maridadi.

          *HON. MARIDADI:  Madam Speaker I had a question. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – May Hon. Members please be quiet for a while. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order, may we have order in the House!

          *HON. MARIDADI:  Madam Speaker, my question was to be directed to the Leader of the House but you then directed us and the Hon. Vice President also made some utterances. 

          My question as an Hon. Member of Parliament is, it now appears that we do not know.  The Presidium is burning and Members of Parliament are burning down.  The cockpit should fall on its own and not take the whole plane down.  The Vice President says something different and you also give a different view.  We want answers and the nation is listening, if the Executive is tired of running the country then others should run it.  I thank you.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Without going any further Hon. Members, I said in support to the Vice President’s position – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We are awaiting the official communication as Parliament.

          *HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, I was listening – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Excuse me, may I have silence please.  Madam Speaker, I was listening and I understand Shona as it is my mother language.  I was raised speaking Shona, you said the Leader of the House is Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa.  I am still speaking and am not done yet.

          Madam Speaker, I said that Shona is my mother language and I appreciate it very well.  You said the Leader of the House is Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa and Hon. Vice President Mphoko stood up and said the Leader of the House is Hon. Bonyongwe.  You then said that we are waiting for communication or discussion.  If Hon. Mphoko is wrong, you should then say Hon. Mphoko is wrong and he stands up and apologizes to us. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          HON. MPHOKO: Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Cease fire, cease fire – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.

          HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker, you said there will be communication.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

          HON. MPHOKO: The letter that is supposed to deal with that is going to come soonest.  I thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  This is what I am saying.  Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Holder! Hon. Mliswa, no.

          HON. MLISWA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker, we must be able to clarify issues here – [HON. MPHOKO: Cease fire wena, wena!] – I have been given the floor. – [HON. MPHOKO: Were you given?]  There are rules – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):  On a point of order Madam Speaker. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Uri Vice President!] –

          HON. MLISWA:  I have the floor Vice President.  Thank you but I have the floor, take a seat Vice President.  Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Thank you.

          Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order, may we have order in the House.  Hon. Mliswa, I will give you time to speak.

          HON. MLISWA:  But Madam Speaker, the issue is about clarity.  The Hon. Vice President just said what he did not say in the first place.  He said Hon. Bonyongwe is the Leader of the House, it is on record, then he comes and says he is waiting for a letter.  We do not know the confusion that is happening here.  How do we move forward when there are so many conflicting statements?  You said pretty well that Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa is leading until further notice but then Hon. Vice President Mphoko then got up and rebutted that.   Whether he was rebutting as a G40 person heating Lacoste, I do not know.  The issue is that he came very strong and said that Hon. Bonyongwe is the Leader of House.  He comes back again, retracts and says, we are waiting for a letter.  This is a serious House of business.  We cannot be in a ZANU PF Politburo meeting.  This is a serious House of Business and we want clarity.  Your word is final Madam Speaker.  It is about time you tell us who the Leader of the House is, once and for all and we abide by that – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Noise, noise – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Leader of the House ndiyani?] – Hon. Mutseyami, can you stand up with your phone in the hand because I know what you are doing.  What are you doing?  You are on your own, can you please stand up – [Hon. Vice President Mphoko having stood up to respond.] – No Hon. Vice President, it is me who give ruling at the end.  At the end of the debate, I give ruling at the end as the Chair. 

HON. MPHOKO:  Madam Speaker, all what I am saying is – [AN HON. MEMBER:  Uri weG40 here?] – Aaaa uri 40 iwe, how old are you.  If you are 40 years, go to G40.  Madam Speaker, all I am advising the Members is that, stand up and ask your question and direct it to the Leader of the House – [HON. MEMBERS:  Who.] – Cease-fire.  See whether nobody is going to stand up – [HON. MEMBERS:  Who, who?] – [HON. MUNENGAMI:  Who is the Leader of the House? Who, who?] –

*HON. MAHOKA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The issue I am going to raise here is the issue that there is where it is written Legal Affairs and Parliamentary Affairs the Minister in question is here.  We, as Members of Parliament, we should talk to him because he is here.  We will raise our issues with the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs.  We may talk of the Leader of the House but we were given a person by the President who stands in for Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Minister Bonyongwe is here.  Hon. Minister Bonyongwe, our problem, I think you were at the pre-Budget Seminar where we were advised that on the 30th we should be having our monies in our accounts.   A document was written that the money we are going to have it on a particular date, therefore our Minister should understand us because he was appointed by the President.  The Minister should know what to do on that matter with the Minister of Finance. 

The Minister is here, why should we not allow the Minister to stand up and clarify this matter so that Members of Parliament stand informed.  I hear people asking, who is supposed to be the Leader of the House?  The President appointed that person, he is here and he should stand up and tell us about this matter.  He should tell us whether he has approached the Minister of Finance with welfare concerns of Members.  Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this time, the Minister is here.  We will not cry, you are here, you are the Leader of the House therefore.  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI):  On a point of order Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is the point of order Hon. Minister? – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order – [HON. MLISWA: Gara pasi.] – Hon. Mliswa.  Hon. Members, I have recognised you Hon. Mliswa when you brought in your point of order, if there is someone with a point of order as well, I have to recognise her – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members.  She brought in a point of order, listen to what she is going to say.

HON. KANENGONI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My point of order is related to the behaviour in the House that is unparliamentary. – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Regai ndipedze zvandiri kuda kutaura.  Madam Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order please.  Order in the House. 

HON. KANENGONI:  Madam Speaker, when the Hon. Vice President was standing up and Hon. Mliswa was standing up, Hon. Mutseyami was using his phone  – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Handisi kuzogara pasi, handisi kuzogara pasi. 

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you, I hear what you say. 

HON. HOLDER:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.  Ava vari muGovernment, ngavagare pasi.  Ndoda kubvunza iye Leader of the House.  Mubvunzo uri straightforward, what policy...

HON. KANENGONI:  As far as I know Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not talking about you – [HON. MEMBERS: Gara pasi iwe.] –

          *THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I heard the question that was asked by Hon. Mahoka – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have order please.  Can we please behave like Hon. Members in this House.

          *HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN.  BONYONGWE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  It is true that my Ministry is that of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I am thankful for that recognition.  I am requesting that I be given a little bit of time so that I will be able to work on this issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister.  We heard the Hon. Minister speaking, he is asking that he is doing something about it.

          HON. HOLDER: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I think my question has already been swallowed by Hon. Bonyongwe, but what I wanted to say is; the bone of contention that is in this House is that what policy has Government put in place so that we do not meet up with this thorny situation which has happened here in this august House.  What policy is in place to protect Members of Parliament in terms of the remunerations and such staff?  That is what I wanted to ask?

          Hon. Members having been making a lot of noise.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please, we cannot continue making noise.  You have been heard.

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I take note of the points which are being raised, that we are in this particular situation right now that perhaps might be an indication of the need for policies to be put in place so that we can prevent a recurrence of what has happened.  I take that issue on board in the same manner in which I addressed the first question; I need some time to be able to address this issue.  I want to assure the House that I am indeed going to do that and should be able to revert to the House with answers on that issue – [AN HON. MEMBER: When?] – Unfortunately, I cannot give you a specific period – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          HON. MLISWA: My supplementary question is simple.  For time immemorial, we have had situations where letters have been written to us saying we would be paid on a particular date and we have not been paid.  The Minister is saying he is working on it, what we want is a time frame because the current situation from an economic point of view, there is hyperinflation which we are not in control of.  He must be able to give us time when he will be able to sort this out and him being a former D.G, I am sure he has ears to the President more than anybody else. 

I think this issue needs His Excellency to know that Parliament is becoming ungovernable because of the people’s welfare.  The Ministers’ packages are better than ours and I think the Minister must speak for us who are elected and are Members of Parliament and he must put himself in our shoes.  Unfortunately, he has been appointed and has no constituency; we come from constituencies, and that is the difference. We really appreciated Hon. Mnangagwa when he used to respond because he would give a time frame to everything.  So, at this time, we really miss Hon. Mnangagwa because he could have executed this pretty well – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Madam Speaker, I do not understand where - perhaps it could be an indication of some failure to accept what I am requesting, but basically, I do not want to give deadlines which I am not able to meet – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.

HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: I have never given my word before on any issue and failed to deliver – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Yes, exactly…

The Hon. Minister having been responding to Hon. Members’ interjections.

 THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Minister, just address the Chair because if you listen to those questions, you will be confused.

HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Therefore, I am asking for some time.  I will be able to come back and report from a position of authority on how we are progressing.  In any case, we are going to be together in Parliament even next week.  How can I sit there without bringing an answer, so bear with me.  That is the point which I am making.  Thank you.

HON. HOLDER: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  My supplementary question is; is it possible for the Hon. Minister to give a Ministerial Statement concerning the welfare of Parliamentarians.  I think that we will be able to find a way forward.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It cannot be done now, he will have to go and prepare.

HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  I have made an undertaking to Parliament with regard to how I am going to perform on this matter.  Please allow me the latitude to be able to perform and I am not giving time frames but I am with you in Parliament all the time, therefore, let us leave it at that on this one – which I do not want to go into, allow me the time to be able to complete what I have undertaken to do.  I thank you.

          HON. ZINDI: Thank you Madam Speaker I think this issue when we started debating as Members of Parliament on our welfare; Hon. Maridadi was very explicit in terms of setting up a Commission of Parliament that is responsible for the welfare and remuneration of Members of Parliament.  It is my plea to the Minister, Hon. Rtd. Maj. Gen. Bonyongwe that in his Ministerial Statement, is he going to highlight on the establishment of that Commission responsible for the welfare of Members of Parliament together with their remuneration or does it require him to bring a Bill and when he is envisaging to bring that Bill so that it passes in this Parliament.  I thank you.

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN.  BONYONGWE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I have taken note of all the points which are being raised.  It is important to appreciate the fact that I have not undertaken to give a Ministerial Statement on this issue.  What I am saying is that I have taken note of the fundamental issues which were raised with regard to the remuneration for Members of Parliament.  I will be coming back to you with an answer on that issue, I thank you Madam Speaker. 

          HON. ZIYAMBI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question concerns the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs vis-a-vis Parliament.  In our constitutional dispensation, we have separation of powers and the Vote of Parliament, if you go into the Constitution, it is supposed to be a separate Vote, not under the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  If we are to follow his argument that is going to look into the issue, where is he getting the legal instrument that empowers him to do that given that in our Constitutional dispensation, our Vote is supposed to come direct to Parliament and not through the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          The Hon. Vice President (Hon. Mnangagwa) having passed between the Chair and the Hon. Member debating. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Hon. Vice President could not pass between me and the one who is debating then stand up in between again.

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE:  Thank you Madam Speaker, I took note of the comments which were raised by the Hon. Member with regard to the Commission and because I was not fully ready on the matter, I did not address that issue for the very reasons which the Hon. Member is now raising.  Therefore, I would like really to deal with this matter in a very methodical manner.  Let me stick to the promise which I made to Parliament and then we are going to look into all those issues.  From the information I have for instance, I understand due to issue like the separation of powers – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: That is not proper to have a Commission as was being requested but I stand to be advised on the legality on some of those issues.  I thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we proceed to Questions Without Notice – [HON. MEMBERS: We want clarity.] – You want clarity? 

          HON. ZIYAMBI:  The clarity that I am seeking is, I think we are going back and forth.  We engaged the Minister of Finance and Economic Development who is supposed to appropriate a budget to Parliament directly.  Now we are shifting to another Minister when we had an advanced discussion with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development who had promised us that by the 30th of October he will do something.  Why are we now doing something that is not constitutional when we can deal with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development directly as what we did when we were at Pandhari.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member.  I think Hon. Members at times we have to get to a point where we understand what the Minister said because the Minister said he is going to look into this.  He accepted everything; so there is no point of keeping on asking the same questions.  So, I think Hon. Minister is going to look into that.  The Minister who is supposed to answer that is not in the House – [AN HON. MEMBER: It is not your baby.] –

          HON. ZIYAMBI:  My issue is are we not digressing by referring the issue to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs when we had already engaged the correct Minister who is supposed to attend to our issues according to the Constitution and not the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Why does the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs said he is going to look into it?] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: But it is you who asked him, he said he is going to look into it.  He needs some time so that he gets there – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

          *HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture...- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON. MEMBER: Let us adjourn.] –

          HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  It is a follow up to the response that has been given by Hon. Rtd. Maj. Gen. Bonyongwe.  I sympathise with his situation but suffice to say he can actually pick out and articulate that the bone of contention is the welfare of members.  It was my personal view Madam Speaker, that to quickly solve this urgent matter, we give the Hon. Minister time to go through the memorandum that was send to Hon. Members of Parliament, analyse it paragraph by paragraph and understand if there is anything that is coming our way.  If there is nothing that is coming our way and if there is no committal we would have wanted the Hon. Minister to give a Ministerial Statement that addresses the concerns that we are raising in this august House.  I think that will give us some favourable light to the extent that we will be sure the Executive is concerned about our welfare.  I thank you Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Even if it is a comment, it is not a.... –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Hon. Members what is wrong with you.

          Hon. Members having stood up.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members, what is happening at the corner there?] - 

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to respond.  I have heard the question which has been raised but basically, I am remaining on my position which is that on matters to do with the remuneration of Members and so on, as was articulated here, I have undertaken to go and investigate those issues and come back and report.  I have also said that I am not going to issue a Ministerial Statement on the matter and therefore, the ambush in essence which goes in that direction is rejected. 

          HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam Speaker…

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Wadyajena, may you take your seat. I do not want to send you out – [HON. WADYAJENA: I am looking for a seat.]- I will send you out if you want to make a joke.

          HON. T. KHUMALO: Madam Speaker, it boggles the mind that we have the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs coming here and telling us that he wants to go and investigate when three/four days ago, we bought 210 cars for traditional leaders.  Did they investigate them before buying?  Did they go and investigate that there was need to buy them cars?  Now, when it comes to us, you want to go and investigate because you want to buy time – we want out allowances. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I thought you are bringing your problems straight to the Minister of Justice because he has something to do with Parliamentary Affairs not buying of cars for the chiefs.  Please, if we talk of our welfare, let us concentrate on that. 

          *HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to say to all Hon. Members who are mourning money, let us not talk about the issues pertaining to the chiefs, let us advocate for our own money to be released. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a good point.  Thank you.

          HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Possibly to get some clarity, because you told us that you were waiting for some communication from the appointing authority in respect of the Leader of the House.  Now that in the interim that letter is not yet available, can we possibly get some insight into this whole issue from Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa who in the interim is the Leader of the House? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order in the House. I am ruling you out.  We do not deal with issues that way. I am presiding over this House, and I do not allow that.  We are proceeding with questions without notice.  – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ko makatsamwei?] – Yes, I want to show that I am chairing these proceedings.  You cannot play with me.  I am not recognising anyone this time.

          HON. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Bonyongwe.  Hon. Minister, as you are in charge of Parliamentary Affairs, does the Treasury have enough money for the welfare of Members of Parliament?

          THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE): Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.  Well, the question which has been posed, I think reminds one of economics.   Resources by the way are never enough for things which have to be done but anyway, this is a matter which the Minister of Finance would be able to answer as to whether he has sufficient resources for Members of Parliament or not.  Thank you.

          HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, we cannot have a situation where Ministers dodge.  The issue is that Hon. Bonyongwe is responsible for Parliamentary Affairs.  It is either yes or no.  If he is, I am asking him in his discharge of duties when it comes to Parliamentary Affairs, he certainly has the welfare of Members of Parliament under his ambit.  As a result, is there money with the Minister of Finance before we go there because the Minister of Finance certainly allocates money to different entities and so forth? He is in charge of Parliamentary Affairs and cannot run away from it.  So, is there money for Members of Parliament for their welfare to show that he is the Minister directly responsible for that?  He cannot say it is the responsibility of the Ministry of Finance.  It is his job to go to the line Ministry and check whether there is money for Members of Parliament.  I am asking this because he assured this House that he is looking into the matter, but what I know is that there is no money there.  So, while he is looking at the matter, where is he going to get the money when the fiscus has no money to give?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, I am going to give the Minister the chance to answer, but is it not the same question that you have been asking him since we started? – [HON. MEMBERS: No.] -

          HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE: Madam Speaker, I made reference in my answer to the Ministry of Finance because the question which had been posed was whether there were enough resources or not to cater for Members of Parliament.  I could not answer to say yes, because I am not the Minister of Finance but then in my Portfolio as the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, let me assure this august House that I take my responsibilities very seriously.  It is my role to confront the Ministry of Finance to plead on your behalf to ensure that – [HON. MEMBERS: Riinhi?]-  we are properly provided for.  To that effect, that is why I answered the questions which were posed this afternoon in the manner I did, saying I wanted time to go and consult, investigate also and bring back proper answers to the House which I respect.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order.  When Vice President Mphoko was asked who the Leader of the House is, he responded.  When the other Vice President walked in, he got out.  As a Member of Parliament, I am totally disturbed as to who the Leader of the House is between the two.   We want our Vice Presidents to work in one accord.  They should not operate separately.  Who is the Leader of the House?  Can Vice President Mnangagwa confirm that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is now the Leader of the House?

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, can we have order Hon. Mliswa at the corner there. Hon. Chinotimba, first and foremost, Hon. Vice President Mphoko did not leave when Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa entered.  He went away at his own time.  Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa came some ten minutes later.  We should not mix these two issues. – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –Hon. Mashayamombe, you have to respect the Chair.  Can you take your seat?  Order Hon. Members.  On the issue of the Leader of the House, I am not going to give the Vice President time to speak because we have already spoken about it and we are done.  There is no need to re-visit the issue.  Hon. Wadyajena, behave yourself.

*HON. MUTSEYAMI:  My question is directed to Hon. Minister Bonyongwe. 

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Please address the Chair!

*HON. MUTSEYAMI:  I want to draw his attention because he seems to be busy. When Ministers are appointed, there is usually handover – takeover. This is the third month that the issue of the CDF and the welfare of members and so forth has been dealt with.  It has not been properly attended to. This is why Members of Parliament are agitated.  What we are discussing here has nothing to do with political parties.  This concerns the welfare of Members of Parliament and CDF.  Were you not given a brief on this matter by Hon. Minister Mnangagwa who was responsible for that portfolio?  The matters that you would be seized with include the issue of allowances owed to members since 2013 and that since 2013, we have not been allocated CDF.  We also have other concerns, that a Minister is entitled to a vehicle as a Member of Parliament and also gets two other vehicles that are serviced by CMED. They are also given booklets for coupons and go on holiday annually. An MP does not get that holiday and such benefits. 

I have just given you the highlights so that you get the picture.  The Vice President should brief you on the rest of the issues since he was the Minister responsible for that portfolio.  These are the concerns of the Members of Parliament.  For three years, no development has happened in constituencies due to the non availability of CDF. Was there any handover – takeover process?  If that was not done, could that be done?

Today we are going to deal with the issue of the Constitution with regards to the CDF so that next week Monday, things will be moving smoothly and when we come back tomorrow, Thursday, you will be in a better position to give better answers and the way forward. 

On the issue of allowances, you were not there.  We were at Pandhari where we had a meeting with the Minister of Finance directly.  He gave a commitment to this House that people were going to receive their money yesterday.  If we were to come back to you, it will be splitting of hairs.  Can you come up with a clear answer?  I appeal, through you Madam Speaker, that we have a way forward.  Let us conclude this matter.  We want our issues to be fulfilled.  I thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE):  I would want to thank the Hon. Member for the question he has asked.  The issue of handover-takeover took place but I am not going to take a lot of time because we are in agreement with what I have said.  I will consult and come back to you may be by next week – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order.

*HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE:  I spoke like that because I am making a response to what has been asked.  Those are not my exact words.  You may say that to Hon. Mutseyami and not me.

The point I am making is that I will bring an answer in a normal manner.  You have given me an explanation and I thank you for that.  I will come back with a response on that issue.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  It is alright.  Thank you Minister.

          *HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I believe that this issue has been outstanding for a long time with Members of Parliament complaining about our welfare.  I urge my colleagues that we have said enough, and I think that the Government has heard it, let us proceed with work – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

Madam Speaker, we have made our grievances known about our allowances and other grievances and may Parliament business proceed, especially to Members of the ZANU PF party.  Can we be united and take the business of Parliament further instead of us just making noise.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Gara pasi, gara pasi.]-  I am not going to sit down until you are quiet

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  You should allow each other to give divergent views and you should be tolerant.  Hon. Mashayamombe, you are allowed, I have given you the floor, so proceed.

          *HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  We are talking to our leaders and they have heard our concerns.  I ask that the Hon. Members on the left also unite with us so that we can take the business of the House further.  We should not dwell on a single issue.  I thank you.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mliswa, please give others a chance to debate. May you please sit down and allow others to speak.  You have been talking ever since.

          *HON. MLISWA:  Madam Speaker, my supplementary question,  before I speak, Hon. Mashayamombe you should know that you are a land baron, you made money through land.  So, do not come to us and tell us about our welfare.  He stole, he is a land baron and that is why he has money.  You are a land baron.  You are a land baron.  You are a thief.

          HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  On a point of order.  On a point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *HON. MLISWA: You are a land baron, you are a land baron.  You should not tell us about our welfare, you are a land baron.

          HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  On a point of order.  On a point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *HON. MLISWA:  Sit down; you have enough money because you are a land baron.  You are a thief.  You are a land baron.

          *HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  On a point of order, on a point of order.  Manje ukaita hasha mari yacho haisi kuzobuda.  On a point of order.

          *HON. MLISWA:  You are a land baron, you are a land baron.  Go and get your money from those people that you sold stands to, we do not have money. I am not Jah Prazah that you can cause to be assaulted.  You are a thug and I am not a thug.  Did you not cause the assault of Jah Prazah.  We will get to the bottom of this – I am done with you.

          *HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  Hapana apo.  You are the thug. On a point of order, he is insulting me.

          *HON. MLISWA:  Are you not a land baron; are you not a land baron?  You are a land baron, so sit down. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Sit down.  Go to your G40 where you steal money.  You have destroyed the country and you have misled the leaders of this country.  Get away - go and sit down.  You are a land baron.  I am done with you.  The truth hurts.  You now have a big stomach and where did you get the money from?

*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  We work for money Themba.  We work for money.

*HON. MLISWA:  You are stealing.  I do not care about what you are saying.

*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  You are insulting me.  You insulted me.  People do not have land and what request are you making.  You will not have it your way – never.

*HON. MLISWA: Why are you crying, why are you crying?  I did not insult you – you are a land baron. 

*HON. MASHYAMOMBE:  Why are you insulting me?  Themba – you think you are clever. 

*HON. MLISWA:  Saying that you are a land baron is not an insult.

*HON. MASHAYAMOPMBE:  No – get away you insulted me.  Why are you insulting me?  Wajaira zvisina nebasa rese.  Tinopedzerana.  Why are you insulting me?

*HON. MLISWA:  You have been hurt, you have been hurt.  The truth hurts.  No, no.  He wants to get away with it.  We can do whatever you want.  If you want to fight, we can do it outside and not in this august House.

*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE:  He is insulting me.  I am being insulted.  He is calling me a land baron.

*HON. MLISWA: Cry then.  You are just saying I have been insulted, I have been insulted.

The Sergeant-at-Arms conducted both Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Mashayamombe out of the House.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN. BONYONGWE), the House adjourned at Fourteen Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.      

 

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National Assembly Hansard NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 01 NOVEMBER 2017 VOL 44 NO 18