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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 03 OCTOBER 2017 VOL 44 NO 8-1

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PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Tuesday, 3rd October, 2017

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

An Hon. Member having been standing in the House.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order Hon Member, take your seat.  Hon. Member behind the pillar, do not continue speaking on your phone in the House, first and last. 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER

REMINDER OF INVITATION TO THE LIAISON AND COORDINATION COMMITTEE RETREAT

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I have to remind the House that all Chairpersons of Committees are invited to the Liaison and Coordination Committee Retreat to be held at the Holiday Inn in Bulawayo, from the 6th to the 9th October.  Travel arrangements will be communicated in due course.  In addition to that, all Chairpersons must bring with them copies of the Constitution and the Standing Rules and Orders.

HON. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. A very good afternoon to you. I rise on a matter of privilege because you will recall that I did talk about our Mines Chairperson situation. We went through the entire due process but I thought it was supposed to be tabled in Parliament so that the due process is followed. The reason why I am bringing this up again is because we seem to be encountering the same problem with the Chairperson.

Just yesterday, he had to unilaterally appoint somebody to also stand in his position as Chair. The Committee would have nominated somebody. With due respect, yes he might have an inclination to somebody who understands issues  but it is also proper to advance your issue to everyone else and say I believe Hon. Mliswa is best to stand in for me whilst I am away. You then give it to the Committee deliberate on it.

Unfortunately, we will not be seen to be doing our job because it is not all of us who have that understanding and capacity at the end of the day. Not to really do down the Hon. Member, I have never heard him speak here in Parliament and so how is he going to stand before you as Chair and present a report?  It is very worrying for the Committee to send somebody who has never even spoken in Parliament to then be nominated, handpicked by the Chairperson to go and represent the Committee as a whole. We feel that the Committee shall be shortchanged especially with so many things that we have done.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Why did you not raise this matter in Committee?

HON. MLISWA: He is dictatorial. We cannot do anything about it. I have said it before and this is the second time I am saying it Mr. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you raise the matter in your Committee?

HON. MLISWA: We did but he always overrides us. I have always said this before. It is on record that we are under siege and we say it. The due process has not been followed. How many times should I say it? I have come before your Mr. Speaker Sir, complaining. We cannot have this continuing. There is no point for that Committee. The due process was supposed to be followed. Nothing has happened up to now.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Take your seat. I want a point of clarification Hon. Mliswa. Were you chosen to be the spokesperson of that Committee on the matter?

HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not have to be a spokesperson chosen by anybody. If I see that there is something not in line with Standing Orders, I have a right to also object to that. I do not have to be chosen as a spokesperson by anybody.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Answer the question. Yes or no!

HON. MLISWA: No, and I do not have to be chosen by anybody to be a spokesperson to talk about irregularities.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Okay, take your seat. Thank you. Procedurally, the Committee through its Committee Clerk should have indicated some consensus on the matter by writing through the Committee Clerk to the Office of the Speaker indicating your problem. That is the procedure.

HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, you did rule in the House.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! I did not recognise you. Please be disciplined. Can you sit down? I want a written report from your Committee through the Committee Clerk and we will deal with the matter accordingly.

MOTION

RATIFICATION OF THE WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION TRADE FACILITATION AGREEMENT

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to seek leave of the House for me to continue to present Order of the Day, Number 1 without it having gone to the Committee because we are in liaison with the Committee who are in agreement that since it is a protocol we can go ahead and present it today.

THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the first part of your intervention?

HON. MABUWA: Last week when I gave notice of the motion, there was a concern in the House that this motion is being brought without it having been discussed by the Committee responsible for industry and commerce. The Ministry of Industry and Commerce …

THE HON. SPEAKER: What was the conclusion of that intervention?

HON. MABUWA: It was referred to the Committee who then agreed through the Chair that we can go ahead today.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I will allow the Hon. Deputy Minister to move the notice and thereafter, there will be an adjournment on the debate.

HON. MAJOME: On a point of order. My point of order is in terms of Standing Order Number 20 (e) that I raised last time. I did hear from the Hon. Minister that she conferred with the Committee but it is my respectful view that the Portfolio Committee…

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I did not get the other bit.

HON. MAJOME: I am the one who raised the point of order about our tradition of just ignoring Standing Order Number 20 (e) regarding the compulsory reference of all treaties and agreements and that is why the matter was deferred to today. The Hon. Minister was gracious enough to advise me that the Portfolio Committee took a position about it. I would, in my respectful view believe that the proper procedure would be for the Portfolio Committee to indicate that it either saw it or it did not see it or it is not interested in it, because it would appear untidy for, I suppose, the Executive to speak on behalf of a Portfolio Committee.  I want to believe that the Portfolio Committee should just do that and then we proceed.  I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  I hear you.  I thought you understood me, she will give Notice and adjourn debate until the Committee has given a report.  Please proceed Honourable, did you get me?  She will give Notice and adjourn to allow the Committee to peruse the Protocol.

          HON. MAJOME:  That is what she did last week.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  She gave Notice last week?

          HON. MAJOME:  Mr. Speaker Sir, she gave Notice and I stood up to raise a point of order and on that the House adjourned so that the Committee would consider the Protocol.  That is how I understood what happened, so we were waiting for the Committee to indicate what it has done.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, I did not want to say that I was not there but the institution must proceed.  You gave Notice Hon. Minister?

                HON. MABUWA:  Yes, I did Mr. Speaker Sir.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  So you proceed to table the motion and adjourn the debate thereafter.

          HON. MABUWA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you for allowing me to proceed and table the motion and I take note of the concerns that were raised by the Hon. Members of Parliament. I move the motion standing in my name;

          THAT WHEREAS, Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the      authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international Organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;

          WHEREAS Zimbabwe is a member State to the World Trade Organisations (WTO)       since 5 March 1995.  In December 2013, WTO member states concluded negotiations         on a new agreement, the Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA), at Bali Ministerial     Conference;

          WHEREAS the Member states adopted a protocol of amendment to insert the new agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement.  In accordance with Article 10 (3)         of the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the WTO Agreement; any new Agreement          negotiated will enter into force once two thirds (2/3) of the WTO member states complete the domestication processes and submit Instruments of Acceptance/Ratification.

          WHILST Zimbabwe was in the midst of finalizing its internal processes, on the 22nd February 2017, the number of other WTO member states reached the required threshold of two thirds (2/3) instigating the Protocol to enter into force;

          AND WHEREAS the Protocol has to pass through Parliament for approval and   Presidential assent before the instrument of Acceptance is submitted to the WTO          secretariat, Zimbabwe as a member of the WTO is supposed to accept the Protocol of Amendment; 

          NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe,          this House resolves that the aforesaid Protocol be and is hereby approved for acceptance.

INTRODUCTION

This motion seeks Parliament to accept the Protocol amending the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the World Trade Organisation (WTO) in order to make the Trade Facilitation Agreement part of our national law.  As a member of the WTO, Zimbabwe is expected to accept the Protocol of the Amendment.

In December 2013, the WTO member countries concluded negotiations on a new agreement, the Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA), at the Bali Ministerial Conference.  In line with the decision adopted in Bali, the WTO members adopted a Protocol of Amendment to insert the new agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement.

On the 22nd of February 2017, the TFA entered into force at the WTO when Rwanda, Oman, Chad and Jordan submitted their instruments for acceptance bringing the total to over the required threshold of 110 acceptances.  According to the Article 10  (Paragraph 3) of the Marrakesh Agreement Establishing the WTO Agreement, a new agreement will enter into force once two-thirds of the WTO members who are currently 164 complete their domestic ratification processes.

The Protocol of Amendment has been accepted by the following African countries: Botswana, Chad, Cote D’Ivoire, Gabon, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritius, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Seychelles, Swaziland, Togo and Zambia. 

All the internal legal processes for the acceptance of this Protocol Amendment were undertaken i.e. scrutinised and examined by the Attorney-General’s Office of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Public Agreements Advisory Committee (PAAC), considered and approved by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation (CCL) and by Cabinet itself on the Fourth Meeting on the 21st February, 2017.

Zimbabwe has been a member of the WTO since 5th March, 1995, the successor of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) to …

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Members on my left,  

may you lower your voices?  Please proceed.

          HON. MABUWA: To which the country was a contracting party since 11th July, 1948.  The WTO administers various trade agreements for the multilateral trading systems and serves as a forum for trade negotiations.  Zimbabwe participated in the Trade Facilitation Agreement negotiations and the national negotiating positions were informed by inputs from various stakeholders constituting the National Trade Facilitation Committee.

TRADE FACILITATION AGREEMENT

          The Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA) provides for expediting the movement, release and clearance of goods, including goods in transit and also sets out measures for effective cooperation between Customs and other appropriate authorities on trade facilitation and customs compliance issues.  It also provides for technical assistance and capacity building on the trade facilitation provisions

          The provisions of the Agreement are classified into three categories which are premised on a member country’s capacity to implement and these provisions are very important and are as follow:-

·       There is category A that contains provisions that a country designates for implementation upon entry into force of the Agreement.

·       Category B contains provisions that a country for implementation on a date after a transitional period of the time following the entry into force of the Agreement.

·       Category C contains provisions that a country designates for implementation on a date after a transitional period of the time following the entry into force of the Agreement and requiring the acquisition of implementation capacity through the provision of assistance and support for capacity building.

ZIMBABWE TRADE FACILITATION NEEDS ASSESSMENT

As a country, Zimbabwe conducted its Trade Facilitation Needs

Assessment in 2009, 2013 and 2015 to identify national trade facilitation needs and to self-designate the TFA provisions into the three categories and then the country classified these Articles into categories A, B and C.

          In category A were provisions which Zimbabwe will be able to implement fully when the TFA enters into force.  We took there Articles 6.1; 6.2; 7.3; 8.1; 9; 10.3; 10.5; 10.6; 10.7; 10.8; 10.9 and 12.  These 12 will be implemented by Zimbabwe according to category A of the TFA.

          In category B, those that Zimbabwe would need some reasonable period of time to fully implement after the TFA enters into force are Articles 1.4; 2.1; 2.2; 4; 6.3; 7.1; 10.1;  and 10.2 – eight of the these

          The last category where Zimbabwe would need some reasonable period of time, financial and technical assistance to fully implement after the TFA enters into force are Articles 1.1; 1.2; 1.3; 3; 5.1; 5.2; 5.3; 7.2; 7.4; 7.5; 7.6; 7.7; 7.8; 7.9; 8.2; 10.4 and 11. 

          Further to the categorisation outlined above, some work will be carried out in May to assess the country’s current level of implementation of Category B and C commitments before making notification to the World Trade Organisation.

4.  BENEFITS OF THE AGREEMENT

4.1    Implementation of the Trade Facilitation Agreement will expedite the movement, release and clearance of goods, including goods in transit and will also facilitate effective cooperation between customs and other authorities involved in trade facilitation and customs compliance issues.  This would contribute to reducing costs of trading, and improve on efficiency, transparency and reduction in bureaucracy and corruption through the use of technological advances.

4.2    Implementation of the Trade Facilitation Agreement will boost the current national efforts towards improving the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe and ease of doing Export Business Rapid Result  Initiative.  This augers well with ZIM-ASSET which is prioritising a holistic approach to tackling Zimbabwe’s trade facilitation constraints to enable the country to meaningfully tap into trade and investment opportunities offered in the region and the rest of the world.

4.3    Ratification by Zimbabwe of the Protocol of Amendment to insert the Trade Facilitation Agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement would also facilitate the sourcing of funding from development partners for trade facilitation projects as provided for in the Agreement.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, therefore, may I recommend that, in light of the benefits that will accrue to Zimbabwe on implementing the Trade Facilitation Agreement, I invite Parliament to approve the acceptance of the Protocol Amending the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the World Trade Organisation to insert the Trade Facilitation Agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement,  I submit.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 4 be stood over until the rest of the Orders on the Order Paper have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.     

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

           THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon .Speaker, I move that Order of the Day, Number 5 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

           Hon. Dr. Shumba having stood up to speak.

           THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you objecting?  Is that an objection?

           HON. DR. SHUMBA: Yes Mr. Speaker.  Mr. Speaker Sir, we deliberated over this issue last week in this House where I indicated that the Committee had made certain resolutions.  I conferred with the Minister outside and expressed the importance of engaging fairly, especially in light of Section 141 of the Constitution.  It is normal practice Hon. Speaker, that once an issue is still being introspected, debated and the parties have agreed to dialogue over the matter, the matter cannot be put on the Order Paper.  I therefore move through you Mr. Speaker to ask that the matter be withdrawn from the Order Paper.

           THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Dr. Shumba.  I think what the Hon. Deputy Minister has done is sufficient.  Order Number 5 has been stood down until further notice.  That will allow your consultation to proceed. 

          Motion put and negatived.

SECOND READING

INSOLVENCY BILL [H.B. 11, 2016]

          Sixth Order read: Second Reading: Insolvency Bill [H.B. 11, 2016].

          THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me at the outset to highlight that the subject area of the Insolvency Bill that I am presenting to this august House is not an often treaded path, but a highly technical field of law which calls for a thorough application of mind by Hon. Members.  Let me first of all demystify the subject of insolvency before I outline the purpose of the Bill and the philosophical principles upon which it is based.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, Insolvency is, in broad and generic terms, a phenomenon where a person, partnership, company or any entity in competitive business is unable to pay debts. In legal terms, a meticulous definition locates the essence of the concept of insolvency in a debtor’s ultimate inability to meet financial commitments when, upon a balance of liabilities and assets, the former exceed the latter with the consequence that it is impossible for any of the liabilities to be discharged in full at the time of falling due.  This definition has however, been critiqued because even where a situation arises where a company’s assets ultimately exceed its liabilities, but it is unable to pay its debts as they fall due, it will be held to be insolvent.  Therefore, inability to pay debts is, at most, evidence of insolvency, albeit not conclusive in itself.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, the problems arising from the conceptualizations of insolvency, and the self-evident truths that the phenomenon of insolvency has gathered momentum, and has over the last decade crystallised into one of the cardinal pillars  - [HON. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjection.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Khumalo and your colleagues, can you stop what you are doing please.

HON. MNANGAGWA:…. of corporate and commercial dynamism at the global, regional and national levels, is a wake-up call to our jurisdiction’s imperative need to review its insolvency law.  By sponsoring this Bill, I mark the central watershed of a noble process of reviewing and modernising our national insolvency regime that will enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of our insolvency system in the country.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe joined the United Nations Commission on International trade Law (UNCITRAL) as a member state in 2016.  The UNCITRAL was established in 1966 with the view to promote and advance the progressive harmonisation and unification of the law of international trade.  This was envisaged to be executed through the preparation and promotion of the utility of legislative instruments in cardinal aspects of international trade and commercial law such as arbitration, procurement and insolvency.  This coincided with the work of the enforcing contracts and Resolving Insolvency Thematic Working Group of the Doing Business Reforms Agenda which was launched by the Government in 2015, wherein the resolution of insolvency cases was identified as one of the key factors crucial to the effective and efficient running of business enterprises.  It was also noted that the current legislation governing the resolution of insolvency cases was scattered in several pieces of legislation and outdated, thereby lengthening the process of resolving such cases.

          Mr. Speaker Sir the Bill therefore, seeks to: codify into one coherent piece of legislation the insolvency laws of Zimbabwe; supplement judicial management mechanisms with other modern re-organisation processes so as to ensure timely payment of creditors; modernise the winding-up provisions that were previously under the Companies Act [Chapter 24:03]; provide for cross border insolvency resolutions; as well as provide for the regulation of Insolvency Practitioners.

          Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the foregoing, this Bill provides for the administration of insolvent and assigned estates and the consolidation of insolvency legislation in Zimbabwe; to repeal the Insolvency Act [Chapter 6:04] and to provide for matters connected with and incidental to the provisions of the Bill.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, this brings me to the specific contents of the Bill before this august House.  The Bill is very long and contains 197 Clauses set out in 26 parts.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, part 1 contains Clauses 1-3 and sets out the preliminary which includes the Short Title, Interpretation and the provisions for when a debtor is deemed unable to pay a debt.

          Part II contains Clauses 4-12 and provides for ways in which a debtor may be liquidated and these include application by the debtor or by a creditor.

          Part III contains Clause 13 and provides that the Act does not apply in respect of banks, insurance companies, registered securities exchange or a person registered in terms of the Securities Exchange Act [Chapter 24:25].

          Part IV contains Clauses 14-18 and sets out liquidation orders and the commencement of liquidation process. 

          Part V contains Clauses 19-20 and sets out the effects of liquidation on the debtor and his or her property.  Mr. Speaker Sir, Part VI contains Clause 21 and it sets out the rights and obligations of the debtor during the solvency period. 

          Part VII contains Clauses 22 and 23 and provides for impeachable disposition including set-offs and presumptions that relate to property that is in possession of the debtor. 

Part VIII contains Clauses 34-40 and it sets out the effects of liquidation upon certain contracts that include leases and contracts of service. 

          Part IX, contains Clause 41 and provides for the appointment of a liquidator. 

Part X contains Clauses 42-49 and it sets out the powers and duties of liquidators.

Mr. Speaker Sir, Part X1 contains clauses 50 - 63 and provides the procedure for meetings and examinations of a debtor and other persons. 

          Part X11 contains Clauses 64-72 and provides for claims against an insolvent estate.

          Part X111 contains Clauses 73-81 and sets out the procedure for the election, appointment and disqualification of liquidators;

          Part XIV contains Clauses 82-87 and sets out the rights and duties of creditors;

          Part XV contains Clauses 88-90 and provides for costs of liquidation and application of free residue;

          Part XVI contains Clauses 91-93 and sets out special provisions relating to the sale of property that belongs to an insolvent estate;

          Part XV11contains Clauses 74-96 and provides for banking accounts, investments and moneys that belong to an insolvent estate;

          Part XV111contains Clauses 97-105 and provides for estate accounts, distribution as well as the collection of contributions;

          Part XIX contains Clauses 106-110 and provides for the rehabilitation of natural persons and its effects;

          Part XX contains Clauses 111-116 and sets out special provisions relating to trusts, companies and other debtors in liquidation other than natural persons or partnerships;

          Mr. Speaker Sir, Part XX1 contains Clauses 117-118 and provides for personal liability for fraudulent, reckless or insolvent trading;

          Part XX11 contains Clauses 119 and 120 and provides for pre and post liquidation compositions;

          Part XX111 contains Clause 121-148 and sets out corporate rescue procedures, which is modern reorganization mechanism that is designed to revive a failing company thereby ensuring its continued existence.

          Part XX1V contains Clause 149 and provides for offences under the insolvency Act;

          Part XXV contains Clauses 150-182 and provides for among other things, the procedure for the resolution of cross-border insolvency and lastly;

          Part XXV1 contains Clauses 183-197 which sets out the general provisions relating to the resolution of insolvency.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, I firmly believe that the Hon. Members now appreciate the scope and general content of this Bill.  Principally, it will deal with the structural issues that arise from the relationship between insolvency law and other laws, the types of mechanisms available for resolving a debtor’s financial difficulties, and the institutional framework required to support an effective insolvency regime. 

          Furthermore, the Bill will enhance our insolvency regime to achieve a balance between the need to address the debtors financial difficulty as quickly and efficiently as possible, the interests of the various parties directly concerned with that financial difficulty, mainly creditors and other stakeholders in the debtor’s business and public policy concerns stemming from impact on employment and taxation.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, I now commend the Insolvency Bill, (H.B.11.2017), to the House and move that the Bill, be now read for the second time.  I thank you.

          The Hon. Speaker having put the question and there being no debate.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I realise that the Bill is very clear that everybody appreciates it.  I feel so honoured by this appreciation of the Bill – [Laughter]-for that reason.   I move that the debate be adjourned to Thursday.

          Motion put and agreed to.

Second reading to resume:  Thursday, 5th October, 2017.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): I move that Orders of the Days, Number 7 to 10 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders on today’s Order Paper are disposed of.

          Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS

Eleventh Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.

HON. MARIDADI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker and a very good afternoon.  Mr. Speaker, my presentation is on power point.  The reason being that last week, the House congratulated Hon. Thokozani Khupe on attaining a PhD and I thought it would be remiss of us if we do not acknowledge you Mr. Speaker that ever since you came in as Speaker of Parliament of this particular Parliament; you have encouraged Members of the House to go to school.  Most of them have taken heed and this includes myself.  I took lessons in computers.  It is for that reason that I want to do a power-point presentation with the indulgence of the House – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI MUSHONGA: He did not hear it. Dzokorora.] –

[Hon. Mliswa having speaking to Hon. Dr. Shumba.]

HON. MARIDADI:  Ifbe Hon. Shumba could speak with Hon. Mliswa outside the House.  Mr. Speaker, I take the pleasure to repeat myself – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Sorry Hon. Member.

HON. MARIDADI:  Mr. Speaker, last week we congratulated Hon. Thokozani Khupe on attaining a PhD from the University of Zimbabwe. I think it would be remiss if we do not acknowledge that when you came in as Speaker in 2013, you encouraged most of the Members of Parliament to go back to school.  I am one of those who went back to school and I took lessons in basic computer lessons for six months.  That is why I want to do my presentation on power-point.  I have bought a second hand computer which has been serviced and is in good order. 

Hon. Maridadi pointing to the slide.

If we go to the first slide, there is a 1942 Rolls Royce which the President is pleased to use at the official opening of Parliament.  There are horses following behind.  The President sits there with his lovely wife and there is a driver and a police officer.  That is the picture I took to kick-start this presentation.

I will go to the meat of the matter, the next slide.  The presentation layout is as follows: I am going to talk about constitutional matters, anecdotes which I take from the President’s speech  I will also talk about common vision and unity  I am going to talk about the issue of corruption which now sounds like a record stuck in a groove I will talk about State enterprises or parastatals – Air Zimbabwe, ZESA, ZINWA and NRZ in particular  I will talk about the budget deficit I will talk about Command Agriculture and I will talk about my recommendations because it is not good to talk about things and you do not proffer recommendations.

I will go to the next slide.  According to the Constitution, the President is not supposed to open Parliament but there was a resolution by this Parliament that the President must come and officially open Parliament.  We were glad that the President was pleased to come and officially open Parliament and set out the legislative agenda.  It is my very humble submission that in the interest of separation of powers, Parliament must be officially opened by the Speaker who is the Chairperson of the Presiding officers.

The Chief Justice opens the Judicial Year.  I think it is also in the same spirit that the Chairperson of the Presiding Officers, who happens to be you, should officially open Parliament.  For avoidance of doubt, I have a picture on the third slide of the person who should officially open Parliament.

Third slide shows the picture of the Hon. Speaker, Advocate Mudenda.

That is the man who should officially open Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – The Constitution is very clear.  Section 119 of the Constitution says, Parliament must protect this Constitution and promote democratic governance in Zimbabwe.  So, Parliament must promote this Constitution.  We have always cried foul as Parliament that the Executive treats us as second or ugly cousins from the village; it is because we are not standing our ground.  We must stand our ground and tell the Executive that Parliament is an institution of the State on its own just like the Judiciary is an institution of the State on its own.  The Executive is equally an institution of the State and none of these institutions must be able to extend its hand into the other.  As Parliament, you must officially open Parliament.

I will go on to talk about the precedence in this country.  There is the presidency.  When I say the presidency, I am talking about His Excellency and his two deputies.  After the presidency, comes the Speaker of Parliament and the Chief Justice.  When the President ….

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Are you going to tell us the best practices where the Hon. Speaker opens Parliament.

HON. MARIDADI:  I will, Mr. Speaker.  As Shakespeare says, cease your admiration a while, I will be faithful - [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – 

Mr. Speaker, when the President is addressing Parliament, he says Madame President, Mr. Speaker; it should be vice versa. It should be Mr. Speaker, then Madame President because you are the Chairperson of Presiding Officers - [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – That is enshrined in the Constitution.  If you go to Schedule 6, Section 6 (14) and 4 (b), they are very clear on what should happen.  Actually, the power of the Speaker is such that when something happens to the President, the Government must continue so that power is handed to the next person.  The party from which the President contested must write a letter to the Speaker, informing him that we are nominating so and so as the next President.  The Speaker must then cause the President to be sworn in.  So, the Speaker is a very powerful person in the scheme of things to the country – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – 

In other Jurisdictions Mr. Speaker, for example the American scenario, there are three people who use outriders and police escorts.  There is the President, the Vice President and the Speaker of Parliament.  When we come to this place Mr. Speaker, we must have two outriders.  When I say outriders, I mean those motor bikes with sirens which clear the road but what we see instead are Ministers with escort. Why does a Minister need escort? Ministers do not need escort – Hon. Prof J. Moyo does not need escort, Hon Chombo does not need escort. Escort must be a privilege of the presidency, which means the President and his two deputies, the Speaker of Parliament and maybe the Chief Justice and it ends there. Ministers must be able to just have a driver and an aide and they come to Parliament. No one is going to kill a Minister. If we wanted to kill Ministers, we would have killed them eight times over. No one will kill them.  Actually, if Ministers are going to die, they will have killed each other and that is why I talk about common vision and unity.

          The issue of the Speaker of Parliament is very clear. Speaker of Parliament is the Chairperson of the Presiding Officers and he is actually Chairperson of the Standing Rules and Orders Committee. It is the Speaker of Parliament who must officially open Parliament and when the President comes here to address Parliament, he must address Parliament through the Speaker. So, it must be Mr. Speaker Sir, and then Madam President because Madam President is only deputy to the Speaker of Parliament. I will rest it at that point Mr. Speaker.

          The President talked about truant Ministers and he said, “Out of 206 pieces of legislation identified as requiring alignment to the Constitution, only 30 Acts remain outstanding”. The President said and I quote “the many pieces of legislation for tabling during the Session certainly mean hard work which demands absolute commitment and diligence from all Members of Parliament and that includes my Ministers as well. Much more is even expected from Cabinet Ministers who should lead by example and of course those who do not attend are guilty. They lack impeccable parliamentary conduct, don’t they”. That is the question that the President asked and I am going to respond to the President.

          I will say to Mr. President when I respond to that; let me quote Mr. President in 1980 when he was Prime Minister of this country. He said “let us turn our guns and swords into hoes and ploughshares, let us embrace our former enemies for the greater good of all”. Very instructive, that is R. G. Mugabe, Prime Minister of Zimbabwe. I was a school boy and I remember that very vividly. Abraham Lincoln, the 16th US President says, “a house divided against itself cannot endure”. And then Winston Churchill says, “where there is no enemy within, then the enemy outside cannot fight you”.  One T. H. White said, “the destiny of man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing you end up like a collection of monkeys throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees”.

          Why should it take the Executive time that what we hear coming out of the Politburo and Cabinet – Cabinet the way I see it is chaired by His Excellency the President. They discuss matters and come up with Cabinet resolutions. When the Vice President, for want of a better example, Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa makes an announcement on a particular policy matter that has been adopted by Government, we expect every Minister to rally behind that. What we hear is a Minister calling for a separate press conference to say no, no, no, what the Vice President is saying is nonsensical. Mr. Speaker, a country cannot endure when the only 25 people that have been charged with running this country speak at cross purposes. Why is it interesting to us as Zimbabweans, how does it interest my mother in Mabvuku to know that Hon. Prof. J. Moyo is a spy because we heard that was presented in the Politburo. What they discuss in Politburo is actually public information. I was going to say the Politburo must not sit at ZANU PF Headquarters; they must sit at Africa Unity Square because what they discuss we get to know about it even before they finish the meeting. It is all there.

          Common vision, we heard that Command Agriculture was a success but we have another Minister saying no, no, no, it is actually command “ugly-culture”. It was a failure. Then ZANU PF Politburo fighting publicly and somebody comes and says, Vice President is a successionist. In response somebody says no but Hon. Prof. J. Moyo is a spy. Why does it interest Mr. Speaker, your grandmother who is in Binga – who is a spy and who is a successionist?  What they want is food on their table. They want a Cabinet which works together to put food on the table. That is what they want. We do not want to hear about their personal fights.

          Mr. Speaker, Government media takes sides, The Herald, The Sunday Mail, ZBC,  they take sides. The Minister of Media then cries foul in public that ah-h the media is taking sides, what am I going to do? Resign – it means that you are not doing your work. Why should you cry foul in public. You have been given that mandate to run the public media and you come and cry in front of us. What do you want us to do? You want us to give you cerelac. Resign because you are a failure.

          The fourth point here says, bureaucrats are meddling in issues of politics. Mr. Speaker, Permanent Secretaries are paper tigers. They must stay in offices and implement Government policy. That is what Permanent Secretaries must do. Permanent Secretaries must not give press statements which attack Ministers. Ministers are politicians and Permanent Secretaries are bureaucrats. There is a clear line between politics and bureaucracy and Permanent Secretaries must adhere to that. That is why then you find a Permanent Secretary being paraded at a rally and insulted because he is meddling in politics – iwe George huya pano. The First Lady will not say that to Ngoni Masoka because he is not meddling in politics. He is sticking to his guns but if you meddle in politics and you are not a politician, politicians will undress you in public and that is what happened. What can we do in that scenario? This country needs people who know exactly what they are doing. Politicians must stick to politics and bureaucrats must stick to bureaucracy. If you are a bureaucrat and you want to be politician, resign and join lasting politics torovana kuma primary elections.

          This country needs peace and security. When you have the President telling us secrets of his deputy in public, that is a source of conflict. I know ZANU PF people are going to keep quiet because that is a hot potato. You cannot have a President haranguing his deputy in public. You cannot have that and vice versa. You cannot have a Vice President saying bad things about his senior in public. It must not happen. We know the President and his deputy cannot agree on everything but that must be discussed behind closed doors. When they come out, they come out with one position.

          I am going to talk about the state of the economy. The President also says, “the Session also comes amid increased optimism for a stronger rebound of the national economy”. Mr. Speaker, people that give the President information must be brought to Parliament and must be asked to respond. Why do they allow the President to read a speech which says the economy is on a rebound when unemployment is at 95% and when everyone is a vendor. Fortunately, Zimbabwe is one of the few countries which has a President who is very intelligent. At his age, the President is very intelligent and he knows but if you give him a speech to say now the economy is on a rebound, he will read it verbatim. What do you expect him to do?

          Government is now working to consolidate agriculture among other things investing more resources in water harvesting and irrigation development”. Mr. Speaker that is not happening. Where is it happening? Why do they allow the President to read a speech as if he does not live here. The President lives here. The situation out there is at cross purposes with what the President is saying. When I go to South Africa and I am asked who my President is, I come from the opposition but President Mugabe still remains my President until 2018 when we come to the elections. He remains my President. I hate it when people try to embarrass him in public like that.

          The President says, “the sustained growth in the mining sector’s contribution to the country’s GDP hinges on the full implementation of beneficiation, value addition programme”. He said that the Mines and Minerals Act must be brought to Parliament. It does not talk about exploration. Exploration is more important than all that because what we need to know is what do we have underground. We can securitise it and borrow money based on our mineral wealth and that will not happen if there is no exploration. The Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill must talk about exploration because we do not know what is underground Mr. Speaker.  Also, I think that is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted because $15 billion went missing and the nation is waiting for answers as to what happened to the $15 billion.  I will leave it at that and go to the next point.

          Enhanced national economic competitiveness and the country’s appeal as an investment destination, Government has embarked on reforms to improve domestic business environment, the Insolvency Bill which the Hon. Vice President presented to Parliament and all those other Bills which are before Parliament. 

          We will go to the next slide, Mr. Speaker, that gentleman there is known as Hon. Patrick Anthony Chinamasa.  He is a Member of Parliament and Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I want to hear what he says about the state of the economy.

          Let us go to the next slide, state of the economy.  Mr. Speaker, last week shops went empty and we are told it was because of social media, Judas Iscariot and the President is very clear that there is a Judas Iscariot amongst us who caused that to happen.  That person, Mr. Speaker, must be brought before the courts because it is treason of the highest order if you generate a message that causes shops to be empty.  Prices actually increased by 75% - that is treason and there is chaos on the money market with a four tier pricing system.  Hard cash United States Dollars, they have their own price; Bond notes attracted 25% surcharge which is now up to about 60 to 70; Ecocash attracts 50% and telegraphic transfers, Mr. Speaker, you do not even know – that must be sorted out.  I am glad that the President has identified some Judas Iscariots in the system that must be flushed out.  We cannot wait for that to happen and I for one cannot wait in the name of Jesus.

          Let us go to the next slide, state of the economy, I continue.  Mr. Speaker, of everything that is happening, no money is being made available to the productive sector.  The 5% Export Incentive is too little…

          Time Limit

          HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA:  Mr. Speaker, I move that his time be extended.

          HON. NDEBELE: I second.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you, please proceed.

          HON. MARIDADI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker and I will be very fast.

          Mr. Speaker, the rate of the Bond note is now 2:1 when I compiled that but today I went to Fourth Street.  Mr. Speaker, you need to have three Bond notes to get one United States Dollar and United States Dollars are available at Fourth Street, Eastgate and Copacabana – brand new $100 bills are available and yet our Reserve Bank does not have money. Mr. Speaker, should we now call Copacabana Reserve Bank or should we continue to call this tall building here Reserve Bank?  I do not know and the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development must fight to stem that.

          Let us go to the next slide, 2016 budget deficit hit $1.4 billion or 10% of national output from a projected 150 – that is bad and that one alone could actually cause a Government to resign – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Without even moving a motion of no confidence in the Government, that alone would have caused the President to fire the entire Cabinet and appoint people who are capable.  I am one of them, not that I want to be Minister but I think I am capable – [Laughter.] –

          Mr. Speaker, subsidies to farmers are not budgeted for in this country.  You suddenly wake up and hear that we are giving farmers subsidies and that is inflationary.  Food imports following a devastating drought, we continue to import food and we are not a net importer of food.  I was on Twitter and there was a Minister, I shall not mention his name because he is not here.  He was celebrating that we are going to build a shopping mall and I said, Minister, we do not need shopping malls in the country.  What we need is the productive sector, why do you celebrate construction of a supermarket?  Why do you need construction of supermarkets even like Choppies?  We do not need Choppies, we need OK Supermarkets because what Choppies is doing is mop-up of United States Dollars and expatriate them to South Africa – that is all that Choppies is doing in this country. 

          Mr. Speaker, all they are selling are imported goods, fast moving consumer goods – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Anyone who comes to Zimbabwe to sell fast moving consumer goods is not good for the country.  Actually, there is a memo at Choppies that says, ‘You can bank everything else but United States Dollars, you keep them in the till.’  An Indian man comes in the morning to collect all the United States Dollars and they are spirited out of the country then you wonder where foreign currency is going.  It is going to South Africa because you allowed Choppies to come here, we do not need supermarkets, we need the productive sector.

          Mr. Speaker, support for loss making enterprises.  Government paid former white farmers $134 million as compensation for land seized since 2000.  The amount had not been set aside in the initial budget and that is very poor planning.  $134 million paid to former white commercial farmers and the money had not been budgeted for, where did that money come from? 

          Mr. Speaker, if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.  Ben Gilpin of Commercial Farmers Union (CFU) says he is unaware of who has been compensated.  So the money went to white farmers and yet the person who is representing the white farmers says, no, I do not even know where the money went to.  I will not be surprised if next year we get another batch of white commercial farmers wanting to be paid.  The same names that are appearing on the list today will come next year saying we still need to be compensated.  This year’s deficit previously focused at $400 million is also expected to increase to nearly $120 million due to maize subsidy.  The scheme is open to abuse and we saddle the economy with more debt.

          The next slide, I continue to talk about the budget deficit.  The former Reserve Bank Governor, Dr. Gono, with all his faults said one thing that is very instructive.  He said that 75% of the problems that we have in this country are as a result of corruption.  Zimbabwe is ranked 154 out of 175 countries according to the corrupt perception index.  Auditor-General, Mildred Chiri, recently released three reports highlighting the extent to which graft has paralysed State owned enterprises.  In that report, mai Chiri says that $500 million cannot be traced.  Senior Government officials have also been caught with their fingers in the till and I will not talk about that because that is public information.

          Next slide, I see my time is almost up.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  It is up.

          HON. MARIDADI:  State enterprises -  Mr. Speaker, we have more than 100 State enterprises in eight categories and only 47 presented their financial accounts to the Auditor-General.  Less than ten got a clean bill of health that they are able to operate as the rest of them had going concern status by the Auditor-General…

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Can you wind up, time?

          HON. MARIDADI:  Yes, I will talk about Air Zimbabwe very quickly.  That is Air Zimbabwe, it has a debt of $300 million and it was given $200 million in 2010.  It has retrenched 400 workers who they continue to rehire.

          The next slide, $250 million of Air Zimbabwe’s debt was put into ZAMCO so that their balance sheet would be clean but today Air Zimbabwe is saddled with loss of $300 million.  Let us go to the next slide that is an Air Zimbabwe aero plane but my prediction Mr. Speaker, the next slide shows what Air Zimbabwe is going to be like in 2020 – that is my prediction.

          Let us go to the next slide, Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority (ZESA),

THE HON. SPEAKER:  It is time.

HON. MARIDADI:  That is ZESA power plant.  Let us go to the next slide, that is what people are saying about ZESA, ‘We are fed up ngeZESA!’, that is what people are saying and that is not me holding that placard but somebody else.

We go to Zimbabwe National Water Authority (ZINWA) and then let us go to Command Agriculture.  That is a picture of the Hon. Vice President and I think that looks like Hon. Kasukuwere and that looks like Hon. Made, Hon. Dickson Mafios – we know them now and Hon. Chitindi and some other people.  Soon after that meeting, they will start sending wrong messages at cross purposes, he is a secessionist, he did this and did that as if that will contribute to Command Agriculture but there they are pretending to be laughing.  After that the Vice President will call his press conference, Hon. Kasukuwere will call his press conference,  Hon. Chitindi his press conference and Hon. Made his press conference.  Fortunately Hon. Made is quiet so he does not call for a press conference … - [Laughter.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Wind up please Hon. Member.

HON. MARIDADI:  That is all information on Command Agriculture and I will be happy to give to Hansard

HON. MUCHENJE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  This presentation has since lost its parliamentary objective and is now laden with political satire – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Something which is not necessary to our ears.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

           THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.  Hon. Member, your point of order should have come much earlier during the presentation.  Hon. Maridadi, unfortunately, the time is up, you may not proceed.

           HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, I just want to thank you for indulging me to make this presentation.  It is my wish that other Members of Parliament also do power point presentation so that we are ICT savvy, but I just want to thank you Mr. Speaker for your time.

           HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

           HON. RUNGANI: I second.

           Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th October, 2017.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

           HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 12 and 13 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

          HON. MUKWANGWARIWA:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Hon. Holder having been asked to present Order No. 14

          HON. HOLDER: I have a point of order Mr. Speaker.  I did present this motion, am I allowed to present it again?

           Hon. Holder approached the Chair.

MOTION

RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON RESUSCITATION OF SHABANI-MASHAVA MINES ON THE ORDER PAPER

           HON. HOLDER:  I move the motion standing in my name;

           That the motion on the closed Shabani-Mashava Mine, which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.

HON. MUKWANGWARIWA:   I second.

           Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PROMOTION OF FAIR REGIONAL AND GENDER REPRESENTATION IN THE AWARD OF TENDERS

           HON. MISIHAIRABWI – MUSHONGA:  I move the motion standing in my name;

That this House:

           ACKNOWLEDGING that Section 18 of the Constitution provides for regional equality and states “The state must promote the fair representation of all Zimbabwe’s regions in all institutions and agencies of Government at every level;

           FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that Section 17 provides that “The State must promote full gender balance in Zimbabwean society, and in particular the State must promote the full participation of women in all spheres of Zimbabwean society on the basis of equality with men;

           NOTING that both Section 18 and Section 17 place obligations on the State to take specific measures to rectify both regional and gender imbalances in society;

           CONCERNED that the process of identifying providers of Government services and Government tenders are violating Section 17 AND 18;

           NOW THEREFORE, resolve to call upon the Executive to ensure that:-

a)    all processes of identifying providers of services to Government are conducted in a transparent and accountable manner;

b)   awarding  of Government and parastatal tenders promote fair regional representation; and

c)    a 30% quota of all Government tenders are reserved for women.

HON. T. KHUMALO: I second.

HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA:  Let me start by saying I took your advice.  However, I am a bit disappointed because I had brought with me handcuffs for this particular motion –[Laughter] – which were taken by the security at the gate because I had hoped that usually visuals demonstrate better than when you speak.  With handcuffs, I would then have indicated why this motion is critical at least to the people that I represent in this particular House. 

          Having said that, I got your advice when you said my word will still be honourable and I hope that my word will be honourable and that the visuals that have been taken away from me will not disturb my presentation.  Mr. Speaker, this particular motion, for some of us, is important and is critical, more so because I have been in this House from the year 2000 I have participated in processes of negotiation for the Constitution, negotiations for the Inclusive Government. 

          Mr. Speaker, in all those debates and those discussions, even in this House, there is one thing that has been very worrisome; it is the issue that when you talk about issues of marginalization, it is always equated to issues of tribalism.  It is almost as if we have taken a position as a nation that a particular group in this country is not allowed to say anything without that being equated to tribalism and I think that is unfortunate.  It is unfortunate Mr. Speaker that last week you were away but in this House something very disturbing happened.  We had a Minister who decided to answer using the Ndebele language in this House.  Previously another Minister had responded in Shona and nothing was said.  We nearly had a Minister who stood up to respond to a question in Ndebele and the first response from the Presiding Officer was that please speak in English so that everybody can understand.  It was very disturbing and it is unfortunate that you were not there but you should have seen the mood that was created in this particular House.  It spoke to some of the very dear and intimate issues that arise around issues of making sure that everybody is treated fairly, which is why when you look at the kind of sections that I am talking about, that is Section 17 and Section 18, which specifically speaks against the discrimination of women against the discrimination of regions. 

          I then decided that perhaps if we continue to stand up and every day keep hitting on the issue that people are marginalized, it may not make sense.  I have personally decided that as we go to the end of this particular Session, I am going to be bringing to the House motions that speak to each particular area that we have been speaking about in terms of marginalization.  So, this time around, I am just going to speak about issues of tenders as they relate to Local Government so that you can understand that when some of us speak about issues of marginalisation, Mr. Speaker, it is just not a subject that we are happy to talk about.

          We are not trying to do political mileage, we are not trying to be tribalistic but we are actually talking about something that is so serious that unless it is addressed, and I keep saying this in this House, unless we address this thing, one day we are going to be in a civil war in this country.  You cannot continue to treat a particular people in a particular attitude and expect that they will not stand up to that kind of oppression.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, I have here, a microcosm.  It is one small area of what is happening in this country.  We have what has become the fastest money making business in this country which is called debt collection.  Every Council basically has a department that works with issues of debt collection and what has happened is that either it is Council or Government institutions.  In this case I took Council and I took Government hospitals.  I looked at Council, if you look at Councils across this country; you go to Mpilo Hospital, they use Wellcash.  Wellcash is a company that is domiciled here but I went further to investigate because I am going to show you how Wellcash runs almost every other area you can think of from hospitals to Municipalities.  Wellcash has four directors –[AN HON. MEMBER: Name them.] – I have them, John Mutonono, Cashington Mavunduke, Panganai Fobo and Lancilot Muswere, these are the four – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - 

          These particular, I actually doubt and I am hearing murmours from other Members of Parliament, I doubt that given the coverage that Wellcash has, it just cannot these people, they must be some bigger force somewhere.  What is interesting is that I did a comparison after having done a search on whom the directors are.  I found out that Mpilo use Wellcash.   I then checked with Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals and found out that they use Wellcash as well.  I said okay can you also give me your names of who the directors of Wellcash are, they just gave me one Cashington Mavunduke and I even followed up and kept saying please can you give me all the others and they said that is all we have.  So, the declaration as Wellcash goes to all these other places is limited depending on where they are going to. 

          What is worse is that when you then look at issues that are to do with Wellcash – Harare City Council had removed Wellcash again before we knew it, it was back even though the Councillors in Harare had raised concerns around Wellcash which is why I am saying there must be some link somewhere and I am hoping that the Committee on Local Government is going to go on and do this investigation.  On our part as Public Accounts Committee, when we were having hearings with local authorities and we requested the issues around Wellcash, we found that it was in Mutare City Council and even in Mutasa Rural District Council.  So, they do not only deal with issues of City Councils, they also deal with rural councils and my concern is even more than that discussion.  If you go to the Legal Practitioners Act, the Legal Practitioners Act is very clear on who should operate as a debt collector.  In fact from a legal point of view, what Wellcash is doing is actually illegal because the Legal Practitioners Act is very clear on who is allowed to send in a demand or send summons.  You can only do it if you are a registered legal practitioner.

          City Councils could have done it if they had used their legal department then that way they would have been in compliance with this.  So, you actually do not just have a debt collector that has taken over the entire country but you have a debt collector that is predominately violating the law and yet in all these councils, we have a legal council that sits there, how is it possible – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am going to come to hospitals, how is it possible that these particular legal councils do not do anything.  As for hospitals like I said, for me places like UBH and Mpilo were even more frustrating because I would have understood if they had picked somebody from the street who said I am a debtor collector Matshobane, Ncube or Tsholonani because it would have said you are saying there is a resource in here and we are using a particular individual.  My debate would be that you chose somebody who is not necessarily legal but we also know in those instances where they have actually gone and taken in lawyers.  So, I have instances where Net One, Tel One and ZESA have taken in some lawyers.  Mr. Speaker, if you read through, let me just take ZESA and this is why you need to understand just how much money people are making.  In most instances they take up to 10% as they write in this particular letter.  All you need to do is to write this letter which is badly written in English.  I am going to leave this copy to you Mr. Speaker so that you read what is written here which people are being asked to pay 10% for. 

          All they need to do is to set up a room as a law-firm or debt collector and employ Ordinary Level school leavers who will just be filing in this and they are making 10% of each amount of money.  So, just imagine the number of people that will owe ZESA.  The following are the names of their debt collectors: - Chihambakwe and Partners, Danziger, Masiiwa, Muvingi, Bayera, Chakanyuka, Wintertons, Chiganga, Ndove, Shumba, Matsika, Nyemba, Matipano, Chinamasa, Mlauzi.  I do not know whether this Mlauzi is supposed to be from Matabeleland but for all intents and purposes, out of the 16 of those, you only got one from that region. 

          It does not make sense to me that in a country where you have Mashonaland, Manicaland, why not just find the lawyers that are resident in that particular province to do the job that is there.  I am sure you have got a law-firm in that particular region. I have a number of lawyers that I know that are seasoned lawyers that have loads of practices that can be able to do that.

  However, it is not happening because people know that there is a resource and that resource should just go to a particular region.  The reason why I am moving this, is to begin to speak specifically to that issue because if I do not, we then just speak as if we are complaining.  So, this is the issue with your ZESA.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it my ZESA?

          HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Yes, both of us, our ZESA.  On Telone, it has a combination.  It has the combination of the Wellcash again and those lawyers must be the richest.  I actually went past their offices; you can tell there is money here.  So, you have a combination of Wellcash and you also have a combination of a legal department.  This is what the legal department said when I asked them – can you explain to me how you actually get to pick up your tenders? They also have something that they call fair-stop business consultancy.  They also said they get in lawyers.  So, when I said, if you are going to get a law-firm what do you do? They said we do a tender. 

          Mr. Speaker, the Legal Practitioner Act is very clear around what you do as lawyers, you cannot tout, and you cannot respond to tenders, you cannot go and present yourself and say I am good.  It defeats the whole ethics, the whole basis and yet we have a whole Telone which is basically engaged in all that. 

          On Netone, they have picked up on registered law-firms.  When you ask them how they do it, what system they use; they then decided that this is too complicated and said we look at names and then we do a security check.  So, I am not sure what that security check is about but clearly, that security check has forced them that the only companies they will deal with, are companies that come from this side of the region which are Danziger and partners, Chihambakwe and Partners, Maungwe and Maunga  and Associates.  All I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that it cannot be.  There has to be a method in the madness.  It is not possible that you want to tell me that all Law Firms that do not bear Shona names have no capacity to be taken on as debt collectors.  It does not make sense to me.  Just from a basic way of doing business, if I was doing business either as UBH, Mpilo or Parirenyatwa, my best thing would be to say where can I find those that are around this particular area because it is more effective and it makes more business sense.  So, how is it possible that you would want to find a Chihambakwe from here to do debt collection about what is going on in Bulawayo, Hwange or Beitbridge – it does not make sense.  All it means is that we now have a cartel.  We have people that have seen that there is easy money.  Hence, Mr. Speaker, when you go to the people that I represent they will imali tolakalangali asioni ngapa and yet they will sit there and say but we live in the same economy.  We are all saying the businesses are not operating, why is it that these other people are driving better cars and doing well.  They are doing well because the debt collection business is where you do not sweat Mr. Speaker.  It is easy money.

          So, these lawyers, particularly, do not have to go to court.  They cannot sit down wasting their time doing affidavits, doing heads of arguments, when they can simply do this particular piece of paper and get 10%.  All I am saying is that this is just an example of the issues around the tenders.  We have bigger things.  If I were to come here next week and present a particular motion around how you choose teachers, it will give you exactly the same result.  If I come to you and show you how tenders around roads and infrastructure building are taking place, you will see exactly the same picture.  I think we need to begin to address that in this House.  We cannot continue to say, anybody who says this is tribal.  You cannot continue to say if anybody raises an issue that says, there is marginalization, it is real.

 The analysis that I was giving you so that I can wind up, around issues of women’s representation because remember, my motion was to speak about how women and how a particular region is marginalized.  If you look at all these things that I am talking about, whether it is debt collection that has been given to places like Wellcash, you see nothing in those directors that speak to women.  If it becomes the lawyers, you do not see any law firms that are owned by women.  It cannot be that you are telling me that there is no capacity in law firms that are owned by women for them to be able to do this kind of job.  So, we cannot sit in here and continue to pretend that we are going to do things that encourage women to participate in the economy.  We cannot continue to be giving lip service to issues around equality when we have opportunities for women to be able to make some money around it – we can do it.  However, what is unfortunate and this is the word that I want to leave to the Committee on Health.  I think it is important that you begin to go and investigate these debt collectors that are operating.  In fact they are making people’s lives more difficult.  One cannot even go to hospital, what you are then doing is that if they get treated, you go back and take their Television sets, you take the little thing that they have.  They are sick, now you are taking away the little thing that they have so that you can feed the fat cats.  Unfortunately, for UBH and Mpilo, they are not even fat cats from your own region.  They are fat cats that are coming from another region.   I think they should be ashamed of themselves and they should relook at what this means.  I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

HON. T. KHUMALO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would love to add my voice on the motion moved by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga seconded by me. Talking of marginalisation of women has gone to lengths that are unspeakable. I had an opportunity to go to my constituency on Saturday.  I have a community that stays behind Killarney suburb – the oldest squatter camp in the history of Bulawayo.  Those people have been in that squatter camp for more than thirty years. 

I discovered that every woman that goes to give birth at any institution, for example UBH or Mpilo hospital; when they are released from hospital for failure to pay the user fees, they are denied the baby cards.  They have stopped the idea of keeping the women in hospital under lock and key because there was an outcry on that one.  One can only get the baby card when the hospital fee is paid. Most of them cannot afford because they are living in a squatter camp. 

The issue of marginalising women in other provinces outside Mashonaland is so sad because we have got to a stage where we are second class citizens when it comes to whatever is happening.  Go to Bulawayo today, every single bank that is in Bulawayo is run by Shona speaking people – from the bank manager to the bank tellers, you name it; it is them.  I went and parked my car at Bulawayo Rainbow and a young lady opened the gate for me.  I was so impressed because women were now opening boom gates.  I was shocked when she said, ‘Hon. Khumalo, ndokumbira munditsvagirewo basa’.  I said, where do you come from? She said that she was from Marondera.  I went to the Management of Rainbow and asked them if there was no one in Bulawayo who could pick and push the boom gate. We have to bring somebody from Marondera to come and do that.  They said that it was the security firm that they were using and so they had no choice but had to do that.

You go to UBH today, there is a pharmacy outside which is called UBH pharmacy.  When the Government hospital has a pharmacy which is not working – I went to that pharmacy and asked them if the pharmacy was an appendage of UBH.  They said that it was run by an individual.  I asked the person who is running the pharmacy and they said, I should go and find out from the main hospital.  When I went to the main hospital administration, they sent me back to the pharmacy only to discover again that it is another Shona person who is running that pharmacy whilst UBH is a Government institution.  We have a pharmacy there which has no drugs but that pharmacy has drugs out there. They do not want people to use eco-cash.  They have to use swipe. 

If you go to any hospital now, you will find women looking after the sick.  How then on earth do they swipe when they do not even have that swipe?  Why are we saying to ourselves that in Matabeleland, we are failing to get people to open a pharmacy who are qualified pharmacists?  There is this notion that mandebele haadi kudzidza.  This has been going on for time immemorial.  Mandebele chavanongoda kungocrosser Limpopo vachidyiwa nemakarwe vakapedza Grade Seven.  Everybody talks about that.

HON. HOLDER:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  The Hon. Member on the floor is misleading the House on certain information.  We have got so many bank managers of different tribes and no one is being marginalised. I think she needs to correct that because we have bank managers of different tribes and tongues even in the Ministry and Government departments.  I think she needs to just correct that.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, she has cited particular banks in Bulawayo.

HON. HOLDER:  She said all banks….

THE HON. SPEAKER:  No, no, no.  She did not say all banks everywhere in Bulawayo.

HON. HOLDER:  I stay in Bulawayo and I know that is not the case –[HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I will give you a chance to debate.

HON. HOLDER:  You will give me a chance to debate? 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, can you wind up?

HON. T. KHUMALO:  Mr. Speaker, I thank Hon. Holder.  That is exactly my point.  Every time we raise issues about the marginalised, these are the people that come on board and tell us that what we are saying is not true.  I was born and bred in Bulawayo.  I know every single corner of Bulawayo. 

Talking of that marginalisation, today the only infrastructure that is in Bulawayo was left by the colonizers and the pensions funds. Besides that, there is nothing.  I want to go back to the issue yekuti maNdebele havadi kudzidza.  Chatinoda chete kungocrosser border tonotsvaga basa kujoni.  It is not true Mr. Speaker.  The truth is that we have women who gave birth to children and died before obtaining identity documents.  They are failing to access identity cards now.  Women have been in and out of the Registrar’s office time immemorial, looking for those identity documents.  To make matters worse …

HON. MAKARI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  On a point of privilege, I do not think it is fair for the Hon. Member to use blanket statements on things that cannot be substantiated.  I am looking at the motion.  It has nothing to do with the tangent of tribalism that she is now trying to purport. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, your generalisation is too elastic. 

HON. T. KHUMALO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I thought I was riding on the statement that was raised by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga when she said when we talk of marginalisation, it is turned into a tribal issue.  I hear you Mr. Speaker, I will make sure that I do not.

The greatest challenge that we will face as a country is the failure to understand amasikho abanye bantu lokhuti siwahlonipa.  If we do not do that Mr. Speaker, there will come a time in life when people will say sokwanile .  Sorry Mr. Speaker, may I be allowed to switch from English to Ndebele.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not mix up.

          HON. T. KHUMALO: For me to make that impact, I want to prove a point Mr. Speaker.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: You are very articulate in English.

          HON. T. KHUMALO: I thank you Mr. Speaker but I will keep on icing my speech with my mother tongue because I can express myself better that way. What we are saying is, time has come - the Constitution of Zimbabwe talks about devolution of power. No power has been devolved to all these provinces let alone where I come from.  It is a constitutional requirement where somebody has totally ignored it because as far as they are concerned, there is no need to empower these people because we are supposed to be subservient to this cabal of people who are now running this country as a tuck-shop.

          Today, if you go to Bulawayo and find out how many people have submitted tenders, you will discover not even one person from Matabeleland would have been awarded a tender. Another good example is the All Africa Games that took place in Bulawayo. People were asked to supply goods and services.  Up to this date as I am speaking, everybody in Bulawayo that supplied goods and services has never been paid. As soon as the games ended everybody that came from Harare got paid. As I am speaking right now, people are still crying because they have never been paid. Why are you segregating them? They provided goods and services like any other of those people that did. What is so special about paying others and not paying others?

          Mr. Speaker Sir, let us avoid another Rwanda. Let us have a united Zimbabwe that respects the 16 languages in this country. I thank you.

          HON. HOLDER: I had not prepared for this debate but because of the sentiments that have been aired in this debate, it has actually brought a cause of concern where we start blowing alarms where it is not necessary. I would like to thank you for allowing me to contribute to this debate. I will contribute in a very short manner because it is said, blessed are the short speeches for they shall be heard. I hope that I will be understood.

          The previous speaker did mention that the marginalised people are mainly from the Ndebele speaking people. I beg to differ on a few of those issues because if we look at Barclays Bank, we have got Thabani Ncube, he is a Ndebele speaker. Ncube already tells you he is a Ndebele speaker and he runs Barclays Bank. We have Royce Sibanda, he runs FBC. We have Mrs. Ching’ono and she runs ZB bank and they are all from Bulawayo. The reason why I am saying that is because my kids go to school in Bulawayo. I went to school in Bulawayo. I speak Ndebele, I speak Shona as well as English; a bit of Shangani and various other languages here and there – [HON NDEBELE: What are you saying?].

          What I am trying to say is that I do not need to be victimised by any of these Hon. Members. I am just saying to the Hon. Member here that Ndebele people are not being marginalised. It used to be like that but since the Unity Accord and everything that has come into place with our new Constitution, I think things are working. It is all work in progress. Even if you look at the new radio stations, we have been around and they have introduced different languages in order for people to understand especially when news is being read in different languages.

          We look at Parliament itself, even on the Proportional Representation, I do not see us saying we have violated the clause. There is women’s quota system that is here. A lot of them are here and I do not need to mention which Hon. Member is from the women’s quota. They do themselves and you also know it Mr. Speaker. When we look at the marginalisation, we need to understand the difference on tribal and gender issues. If she is talking about gender, so far we have done well as a country where women are also here and they contribute significantly to this Parliament.

          You will find that in most Government departments, people have been reshuffled and because people have been reshuffled, there are so many people from different parts of the country that work. The only problem that we face in certain institutions is that sometimes it is the attitudes towards work. Other than that, I think as a county and as a Parliament, we are doing pretty well in terms of being fair to each and every person. We are upholding our Constitution as parliamentarians especially on Section 119 which says that we need to uphold the Constitution. The saddest part about it is that as people in this country, in some areas people are a bit backwards. It will take them time but you can see that Government is really working hard towards empowering and making sure all nationalities are involved and also the gender aspect is also there. Even if you look at the Ministry of Youth, they are mixed.

          I do not have much to say but I just wanted the Hon. Members to take note of that. I thank you.

          HON. PHIRI: I also want to add my voice to the debate. I will not be very long. Mine is going to be very short. Yes, there is marginalisation in the country which has been going on for some time but most of it, I think it is more of corruption in certain places than people themselves thinking about marginalisation in terms of tribe. I want to take it from that angle. It is a disease amongst some of our own people that they look down upon other tribes, not that they do want to marginalise them but because they look down upon them.

          In 1979 when I completed my course as a teacher at United College of Education, I went to look for a job and there was a certain Education Officer in Bulawayo who was called Mr. Hadebe. We went for an interview and we were ten of us who were prospective teachers. We went there and then he said to us, bafana vekuMashonaland endai uko, vekuMatabeleland endai uko. We were actually separated. It was the mentality. Just recently, we were talking of people registering for voting and we have those who are unfortunately called aliens - [HON MEMBERS: Iwe.]- born, bred, and married here and are called aliens. Is that not tribalism?  You are marginalised.  The tribal mentality that some of us have - it is a disease that some of us have.

          There is a lot of nepotism and corruption. If you look at some of the names that were being read here by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, if you go deeper into it, you will find that sometimes it may not be a general trend but the person who is selecting those due to the tribal disease that got into him. So it is a disease.

          At one of the schools that I was at, I think it was around 1990 or somewhere thereabouts. We had an Education Officer, Mr. Speaker Sir and every year we held a party for headmasters.  You know, it was very funny, that all the headmasters who were invited would be calling each other sekuru or tezvara.  They were all being recruited by the Education Officer on tribal lines.  I will not say which tribe but on tribal lines – it is a tribal disease.  So what we need in this country, when we read books like the books that were reading from as early as Sub A when I started Sub A.  You read books about Zuze and they portray Zuze as someone who is very stupid – [Laughter.] -  Zuze was from Malawi or Zambia.

          You listen to the radio, and even on television, look at how some television characters depicted.  The Malawians and Zambians are depicted as stupid.  The Malawians and Zambians are depicted as stupid – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – It is a mentality and a disease that some of our people in this country have – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  In short, I did not want to speak much.  So, yes, my Hon. sister was talking of marginalisation.

          Even towns, the small towns like mine in Kadoma are being marginalised in terms of growth.  Yes we have 12% growth in the economy; come to Harare - there is 12%, but when you go to Kadoma there is zero – even minus.  So, we need to look at this holistically and seriously because personally, I am very pained when people talk bad about other tribes – especially my own tribe.  I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

          *HON. RUNGANI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I want to thank Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga for her very good motion.  I want to say that being a little knowledgeable as we are in this House, we should teach our people.  Some of our national identification documents have names that have been mispelt…

          *THE HON. SPEAKER:   Order, order Hon. Member, please look at me.

          *HON. RUNGANI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, so we should teach our children.  When I was growing up, my father used to work in Bulawayo and would sing SiNdebele songs towards Christmas time.  This meant that our people would travel wherever they wanted freely from Manicaland to Bulawayo, which was very good.  There was no tribalism because people would travel to other areas in search of employment. 

          I think, if we are educated, we should teach our children to work hard and not be selective.  I am surprised because other tribes are here.  If I look at developmental issues, there are some areas in Masvingo which is really surprising, like in Chiredzi – they do not have school.  I think you see it on television that there are no bridges and people cannot travel during the rainy season.  This means that under-development is countrywide.  I am saying that when our country has money, it should be equitably spread throughout the country and schools should be built.  People should be knowledgeable that when they want to work every tribe should be competent to work in the banks or by the gates.  We should discourage laziness and encourage people to be hardworking – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -  May you please protect me Mr. Speaker Sir.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order may we please listen to the Hon. Member.

          *HON. RUNGANI: Let us teach our children, they are not your children only.  Even our children abscond from school, cross over to South Africa and end up becoming thieves. This 10% consists of some of our children; they are also included there as all the tribes are there. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] -   I am saying all of them steal and there is no righteous percentage, all Zimbabweans steal and they are thieves.

          I am saying resources should be shared equally in all the provinces and schools should be built in all the provinces so that everyone benefits.  Also those areas where they are not learning Science subjects should be able to do so.  With those few words, I thank you.

          +HON. N. NDLOVU:  Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity.  I want to thank the Hon. Member who tabled this motion, in our own language we say, it is an important motion because everyone is talking about it.

          The first thing that I want to highlight is to give an example of Kezi.  I come from Matabeleland South. 

          +THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order correction, an example in SiNdebele please.

          +HON. N. NDLOVU:  I want to give an example of Kezi area especially where we have the people from Registry Offices issuing birth certificates.  They make spelling mistakes and when people want to correct that they are asked to pay $25.00 in addition to the transportation money that they would be using.  If we hire people from the same region where they are able to speak the language, they will be able to spell names correctly.

          We have big shops like OK Supermarkets, I want to use the example of Choppies because I realised there are so many Indians there.  I want to use an example of OK Supermarkets…

          +THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order is it true that there are so

many Indians in Choppies?

+HON. N. NDLOVU:  I am referring to Choppies in Gwanda,

there are many Indians there…

          +THE HON. SPEAKER:  Okay, you are saying the Choppies located in Gwanda – [Laughter.] –

          +HON. N. NDLOVU:  Mr. Speaker Sir, shops like OK which are big, you will realise that they can hire anyone who does not have qualifications to do general hand work.  When you ask for a trolley, you hear the person responding to you in Shona.  Those are some of the things that we get worried about as people from Matebeleland. 

           Mr. Speaker Sir, when you go to Plumtree, you find the Kalanga people and every time when somebody is communicating with them, they want someone who speaks in their language.  The same applies to the Binga people, the people from Binga or Matebeleland districts, you will realise that in whatever they will be saying, they will be using their own language but the person who is supposed to assist them will use either Shona or English.  Most of the people who are in offices, especially in clinics, use the language that the people in that area are not conversant with.  For example in clinics, at the end of the day, the elderly will take their tablets or any medication in a wrong way because they would have failed to understand what the nurse would have said. 

           When you look at the universities and high schools that are there, the one that is in Gwanda, I know they say it is in Gwanda but you realise that most of the people who are in Gwanda will not be able to go there because of the few schools in that area.  I am not one person who talks a lot but I realise that we have our Ministers who were elected by the President of the State.  We have Hon. Vice President Mphoko and Hon. Minister Jonathan Moyo who introduced STEM.  I am not sure whether they wanted to improve areas in Matebeleland for they know that in Matebeleland we have a few schools in sciences.  They brought this programme when they know that in Matebeleland we do not have schools that offer science subjects.  That means they had their targeted people.

           To the Vice President, Hon. Mphoko, when you were appointed, we were very happy because we thought that our region was going to be empowered.  However, we realise that so many times, you have given people chicks, but at the same time, there is nothing that can be used to feed the chicks.  So, I do not know whether it is a way of trying to improve the region or it is just a way of giving just for record.  What we are therefore requesting is that the Government should not concentrate in one area especially when they are giving tenders.  For example, if it is written, Nomathemba Ndlovu, do not take someone, for example, from Murehwa.  If you are giving a tender in Matebeleland, give people who are there.  In addition, if our children bid for tenders, please give them that tender if they qualify.  With those few words, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

           THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO): Thank you Hon. Speaker.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to speak as a Minister responsible for reconciliation and national healing.  First and foremost, I think the source of our problem; there is no first born Zimbabwe, there is no Zimbabwean who is better than any other Zimbabwean.  That is one point – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I am saying, there is no better Zimbabwean than any other, we are all one. If people are doing whatever they are doing, it is out of the law – [AN HON. MEMBER: or ignorance.] – or ignorance, that is correct, but we belong to this country.

           There are some people who want to claim that originally I come from South Africa, the Ndebeles came from South Africa, so and so came from Zambia, but the fact that we are all here, we are all Zimbabweans, clear.  That is a starting point and if that Ministry is supposed to succeed, national reconciliation and so on, we have to understand that we are all equal.  It does not mean that because you are Tonga, or Manyika or Muzezuru you are better than me, no, no, there is nothing like that.  The moment we go into those pieces of tribes, we are finished as a country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

           So, if I can give an example during the struggle if I am allowed.  When we formed what was called the Joint Military Command, ZAPU and ZANU in 1972, Chitepo and J.Z Moyo, we all said, ZANU said; ‘we are not here to be swallowed by ZAPU.’  We said, we cannot be swallowed by ZANU – [AN HON. MEMBER:  But you were swallowed.] – No, no, that is your theory – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Listen.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say and this is a fact, I have my own principles which are entrenched as a political whatever.  If you swallow me, you will swallow poison, so you are wasting your time.  So, we are not here to swallow each other, we are here to work together as a people.  That is very critical.  If we draw these lines to say this one is Mundau, Muzezuru, Mukaranga, Mukorekore, whatever, you are finished.  You can do that at home when you are doing whatever you will be doing as a family.

           However, on national peace and reconciliation, you are my brother, my sister and everything, clear and straightforward – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – it means that it goes to the programmes of the country.  There is no province which is less important than any other province.  That is why the President says, it was an ‘act of madness.’  It must never be repeated, please that is very important.  So, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important that we should not look at these small little things, let us concentrate on ourselves as Zimbabweans, simple and straight- forward. 

           What happened, somebody was talking of development and marginalisation.  Those are the things that the community themselves must complain about, they must raise these things – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Inaudible interjections.] – Cease fire.  When you come here and speak in Parliament, it is different when people are complaining in Kezi, which will demand me to be sent by the President to go and discuss the things – [AN HON. MEMBER: it is very important and it is very powerful.] – It is very important and it is very powerful.  What you are saying Hon. Misihairabwi, Priscilla, we know her in Parliament, she does not have that punch, but if it was said by an old woman right in Ngezi there – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Cease fire, Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. M. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjections.] – we travel throughout the world, I travel at my level and then let me mention for instance  that there is a lady who is in the Senate who presented a case and I will be going there, that lady for instance MaNdlovu talked about something, if you insist we can go there together no problem – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. T. KHUMALO: Bedinga amatender, aphiwa amaShona koBulawayo.] – No, no -  [HON. MATUKE: Hon. Vice President, please do not listen to their interjections.]

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Can you allow the Hon. Vice President to wind up his point of interjection.

HON. MPHOKO: What I wanted to emphasise is that there is no better Zimbabwean, I agree with what the people are saying.  It is an observation which has been made but there is no better Zimbabwean than any other – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – If you are saying there are certain things which are happening which favour other people – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] – No, no please, there is no law which says a Shona is better than a Ndau – [HON. MEMBERS: It happens.] – No. Mr. Speaker, is there any law which says a Shona is better than a Ndau, there is no law like that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, if you allow it to happen, it is your own look out.  So, I am saying, I am not supporting the issue because there is no better Zimbabwean than the other, no one is better than the other, you are all Zimbabweans. Anything which comes must be distributed equally as a people – [AN HON. MEMBER: The impression is Shonas are more equal than others.] – No, you allow them.  If you allow them it is your fault – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. MUTSEYAMI: Sibatshaye?] – Nxa likwanisa bazalibopha – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. T. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER: The National Reconciliation should guide us as a people together. 

          *HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Firstly, I am very hurt because we are debating such a motion 37 years after independence.  The challenges that we are facing as a nation in terms of marginalization is there and it is true.  The Hon. Vice President should understand that it is not just an issue that people are happy or are angry about or that it is a show but it is a challenge that is rampant in this country.  The first thing that I want to do is to thank the Hon. Member for the motion. 

          Firstly, a thing that touches on marginalization is how our country was liberated, looking at the role of our ancestors.  In Chipinge, the ancestors that fought there were the Magigana, Sotshangane, in Makoni, there were ancestral spirits like Chingaira that fought and the others.  In Matabeleland there are also ancestors that fought like Lobengula, Mzilikazi.  Zimbabweans talk as if the ancestral spirits that liberated this country came from Mashonaland only, Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi.  Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi did not get to Chipinge because they had their own spirits there and in Matabeleland they were Lobengula and Mzilikazi.  In Makoni there was Chingaira and Maondera.   Mbuya Nehanda did not go to all these places because she was a Shona medium.  We as Ndaus are told that the spirit that liberated the country is Mbuya Nehanda who never came to Chipinge and it is very bad.  This should be rectified so that our children know that when we fought for this country, there were ancestral spirits from Mazezuru, Ndaus and Ndebele, it is not Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi only who liberated the whole country and that should be rectified.

          Coming close to home, in terms of marginalization, we should look at the languages.  I speak Ndau and there are some who speak Ndebele, Tonga, Maungwe, Shangani, Samanyika et cetera.  When the language was put into place as Shona languages it touches other dialects like Hwisa, Korekore, Ndau, Zezuru.  If you look closely, what they are referring to as Shona is Zezuru and in this Zezuru there is no other languages incorporated like Ndau or Ndebele and yet they say our national language is Shona.  Those things should be rectified as we go on as a nation.  That on its own is marginalization because if you come across a Ndau, the children coming from Chipinge, Checheche coming to the university, they will struggle to speak Chindau.

          HON. MATUKE:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  What is your point of order?

          HON. MATUKE:  I am just reminding my fellow Members of Parliament that our Constitution addressed all those issues because we need to abide with the Constitution and make sure that we put it into practice.  So, the languages are all covered in the Constitution. 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, Hon. Chief Whip, if you want to debate, debate there is no point of order there – [Laughter.] – Can we stick strictly to the motion particularly the prayer, A,B,C prayer, if we could stick to that.

          *HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I had been side tracked but I can find my way.  Looking at marginalization Mr. Speaker, if you go along the major roads in this country, you will find that there is no highway network which has more potholes than the one from Birchenough Bridge Tanganda up to Chiredzi.  If you want, you can send anyone, there is no road like that.  That should be looked at with urgency so that people will realise that they are being looked at as people; that they are given all the respect due to them and that yes, we are at the boarder of the country but we are known that we exist.  That is my plea. 

          Not that we can be comfortable that our roads in Chipinge are fine. People think that if it were not because of the missionaries who came and constructed a hospital at St Peters; if they had not come to our rescue, today we would be in deep problems.  I think that should be rectified.  I do not want to say more, I just wanted to touch on the issue of ancestral spirits and national languages.

 I would like to repeat Mr. Speaker, what people talk about.  I visited Binga on a tour, on a Parliament Business, Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services Committee.  I saw that Binga is a big place in Zimbabwe but if you look at it closely, it is being neglected deep down – and that is where our Hon. Speaker comes from.

THE HON. SPEAKER: On a point of order!  I come from Hwange. My mother was born in Binga but I come from Hwange. 

*HON MUTSEYAMI: So, this means that our Hon. Speaker is Nambia and Tonga. 

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Even in Hwange there are a lot of Tongas there!

*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  When I went to Binga, we were a mixed bag, the MDC and ZANU PF.  We were travelling as children of Zimbabwe but we realised that Binga should be given first priority when it comes to development, it is so backward.  To think that they are enjoying the honey and milk of Zimbabwe, that is very far because there is nothing in terms of development, I was hurt by that.  So, I am pleading with you Mr. Speaker that any platform that you get, even when you get the opportunity to meet the Executive, I think you should bring Binga on the table because the opposition will come to pass one day.

I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to support this motion.  I am sure whatever I have debated will be of value and would lead us to help the people in Chiredzi, Chipinge and Binga and that there should be a correct history of the ancestors who liberated us.  We were liberated by a number of spirit mediums not just one.

+HON. G.M NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was brought in this House by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga.  In my contribution Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasise on what was said by the Vice President where he highlighted that it is important to note that Zimbabwe is one.  Yes, we can differ in what he was saying or where we come from but Zimbabwe – we are one nation.  This does not stop us from seeing the mistakes that are there in the nation especially on the issue of segregation in how we live.  Yes, we might not see it in a naked eye but there is a lot that is happening behind closed doors which has caused people to think that maybe there is segregation that is there based on where you stay.  I am talking this as someone who comes from Matabeleland.  There are so many things that I can give evidence where I can say most people from Matabeleland when they look at, can easily pick that there is something that is not going on well.

We had an opportunity after we got our independency, in Matabeleland South, we realised that there was not much of development that was there because of the misunderstandings that were happening in the country.  People expected that when we got our independence, the Government was supposed to close one eye and concentrate much in Matabeleland so that they can develop the region.  Up today, there is not much improvement in that area.  I am talking about issues to do with improving the nation.  For example the road from Bulawayo to Nkayi, the road has not been rehabilitated up to now.  The work has been in progress for so long.  This, therefore, makes the people from Matabeleland South feel that they are being segregated.

When I heard the issue to do with the water project from Zambezi to Bulawayo; when you follow the history of this project, you will realise that it started in 1932, up to now the project has not commenced.  I am not even talking about talking commencing of the project but at least to have a drop of water from Zambezi to Bulawayo.  As I speak, there is the issue of the Dam in Masvingo, the Tokwe Mukosi Dam.  The project was started recently and it has been completed but when we compare with what is happening in Matabeleland for example, the Gwayi-Shangani Dam, people are looking at all these things and when they see something that is wrong, at the end of the day they will point fingers to the Government.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I grew up under the hands of the late father Joshua Nkomo who was father to everyone.  Most of the times when he was contributing, he would emphasise on people forming a unity and he would say when we become united we would be able to build the nation.  Most of the time when we fail to unite people, at the end of the day, we will cause civil wars.  It is important, therefore as the leaders of today to have a look at these things so that the people that we are leading, when they highlight that there are certain things that they are not happy with, we correct them so that at the end of the day it does not cause disagreement. We saw it yesterday when the Vice President was saying what happened way back was just a state of unstableness but when such things happen at the end of the day, we realise that we have such misunderstandings which will cause havoc.

Someone gave an example of a person who takes someone and puts them in a toilet, lock it up and say you are not going out of this place.  Most of the time, you can say that it is the grass that suffers when two elephants fight but at the end of the day, even the elephant will suffer and not the grass only.  Our wish therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, is what the people that we are leading have expressed that they are not happy with.  It does not help for us to say that it is not there and deny its existence.  If it is there, it is there.  We should face it and try to sort it out.  It does not help to say you are looking at a goat that is moving up and down with its tail up and you are asking whether it is male or female. Things have gone wrong and we should acknowledge and try to fix that.  We all know that things are not well in our company.  Therefore, there is no need for someone to deny it and there is no need for someone to ask.  It is very crystal clear. 

I know that even as I am contributing in Ndebele, there are some Hon. Members who are Ndebele but they are asking each other what exactly I am saying.  I come from Tsholotsho in Nyamubambile and I grew up in Bulawayo but if you take me and put me in Chipinge or any part of the world, I understand everything that they are saying.  I do not have a problem with that.

I would like to give you an example; I was once sent by my party to Masvingo and I went right round all the constituencies in Masvingo.  When they said they were going to look for an interpreter, I told them that I am a Zimbabwean and I do not need an interpreter.  I spoke to the people of Masvingo in their own language that they understand.  What I know is that they were able to understand all that I was saying.  Why then do we have other people who are coming from Zimbabwe who do not want to learn the other language that is being spoken in Zimbabwe when they come from Zimbabwe? What is the reason for that?

In my own view, when we give birth to children, we give them the intuition where we are saying when you are born on this side of the country, you are better than someone who is coming from the other side of the country.  When I was still working, we used to say that the Ndebeles talk about tribalism but the Shonas practice tribalism.  Therefore, there is a difference between someone who is talking about something and someone who is doing it practically.  This is because the Ndebele talk a lot about tribalism and the Shonas do it.  At the end of the day, it is only the person who will talk about it who is seen mostly.

There is one factory in Bulawayo where the manager was coming from Mashonaland.  When one person lost one of their relative who was said to be an uncle, the whole factory was closed because everyone who worked in that factory was a relative of the manager.  Such things exist Mr. Speaker Sir.  Yes, we can deny and say this does not exist but it will not solve the problem that is there.  I thank you Mr. Speaker.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI):  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 4th October, 2017.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI), the House adjourned at Twenty One Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.  

 

 

 

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National Assembly Hansard NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 03 OCTOBER 2017 VOL 44 NO 8-1