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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 12 NOVEMBER 2024 VOL 51 NO 11
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 12th November, 2024
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
DIPLOMATIC TRAINING WORKSHOP
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the first Diplomatic Training Workshop will be held at the Bulawayo Rainbow Hotel from the 15th to the 19th November, 2024, with the 15th and the 19th November being travelling dates. Members of Parliament who fall in the following categories are requested to attend; Government Chief Whip, Leader of the opposition, Committee on Standing Rules and Orders Members, Presiding Officers Panel, Chief Whips, Chairpersons of Portfolio and Thematic Committees, Members designated to International Parliamentary Organisations such as SADC, IPU or APU. Members will be advised of their travel arrangements individually by the External Relations Department.
*HON. MATAMBO: Good afternoon Hon. Speaker. My point of national interest is regarding the state of our roads. There are some popular roads which have taken a lot of lives, for example the Wedza Road where a family perished. We also have another road which is Bulawayo Road in Kuwadzana 7 turnoff, Kuwadzana Extension turnoff and towards Chegutu. The request is that Government should intervene accordingly by putting speed humps and carriageways so that our people will be safe. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I understand more than what you are suggesting but the Minister of Transport is coming up with some measures to ensure that our drivers behave on our roads. I am sure that the point is taken. Thank you.
*HON. CHIGUMBU: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to give a point of national interest regarding the demolition of houses that was happening.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is point of interest in Shona Hon. Member?
*HON. CHIGUMBU: I have not yet mastered it.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I informed this House that please let us preserve our mother languages. We are leaders and when people watch, they follow the presentations that we make. Let us not mix languages, from today onwards, let us stick to one language. May you try Hon. Member.
HON. CHIGUMBU: Thank you, I am rising to give a point of national interest pertaining the issue of demolitions that have been happening in Harare and some parts of the country. Mr. Speaker Sir, my issue is being motivated by Justice Uchena’s Commission on issues of land that was appointed in February 2018. We have seen a lot of people losing wealth. We have seen a lot of disheartening things happening when people get their houses demolished.
I think the Commission’s recommendations were so helpful in dealing with this problem. Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations that was made by the Commission was to suspend the allocation of land or housing stands on unserviced stands. The other recommendation was also to investigate all officers that are involved in parceling and regularising these spaces. The other important recommendation that was made Mr. Speaker, was to introduce specialised land courts to deal with land disputes and land barons. The reason why I am rising to give this point of national interest Mr. Speaker, is that we are seeing people building houses on pieces of land where houses should not be built or that would have been acquired through means that are not legal. We have enforcement agencies that are supposed to be monitoring all these activities. They are casting blind eyes to these developments but they will then come when people have finished building and then demolish. Imagine the loss that we are getting into as a country, Mr. Speaker Sir. We are experiencing energy issues, people buy raw materials to build their houses and the next thing they are demolished.
My prayer, Mr. Speaker, is to say, can we come up with a mechanism or can we come up with a short-term solution to this so that the people who should be taking action before people complete building on those pieces of land if they are not going to do their job, they must also be accountable, Mr. Speaker Sir. We cannot have a situation whereby these land barons bribe those who are in charge of development control, they go and bribe police officers so that they do not get arrested. At the end of the day, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is an innocent person who is a home seeker who ends up being disadvantaged and these people are roaming scot free and nothing is happening to them.
So, I am thinking, can we come up with a holistic solution to this problem? If possible, Mr. Speaker Sir, can this report be published or be made public because up to this day, it has not been made public. If it could be made public, Mr. Speaker, it would help the members of the public to understand because it detailed the land barons, it detailed the pieces of land that were acquired illegally.
If it is to be made public, it is also going to help home seekers to understand or to know which areas they should not go and build their houses on. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I just want to be clear, Hon. Chigumbu. Who is responsible for the land in the local authorities?
HON. CHIGUMBU: There is local authority but there is also state-owned land in urban areas.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, can you assist?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to follow up on your question and then clarify. Mr. Speaker, you were very correct to ask who is responsible.
In fact, in this particular case, it is the Municipality of Harare that was demolished without a court order. I checked whether there was a court order, so it is the municipality. All the issues that they are raising are also subject to the Commission of Enquiry Investigations.
Everything that the Hon. Member has said falls squarely into the hands of the city authorities. They are the ones that have been allowing the buildings to be built. They are the ones that have demolished, you can go and check, they demolished without even a court order and we have also requested that this be investigated.
I agree with you. Why wait until a house has been built and then you send bulldozers to destroy it? Some of the houses were beautiful structures and it is not even fair to those people. So, I believe it is a point of national interest but it is a point that our local authorities largely controlled by the opposition, must also have a humane face and be able to articulate some of these issues from a human rights perspective. I thank you, Mr. Speaker.
HON. C. HLATYWAYO: Point of clarity! I want to emphasise the point that the Honourable Minister...
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, what is your point of clarity? Ask a question. Ask a question so that the Hon. Minister can clarify.
HON. C. HLATYWAYO: What were the recommendations of the Land Commission which was mentioned by Hon. Chigumbu? Those recommendations were not implemented. So, the Hon. Member was saying, let us implement the recommendations of that Commission because the Commission has highlighted the problems and the causes of the problems in the country. It has identified the people who are stealing land in this country.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now debating. You are not asking for clarification. In terms of the Urban Councils Act, it is the responsibility of the Urban Councils – [HON. HWENDE: Inaudible interjections.] - Order! Not when I am speaking, you cannot object. The law is there. The law gives the local or municipal councils authority to ensure that any development taking place within the local authority is in terms of their master plan and physical planning. It is they who must enforce the Justice Commission's report.
Perhaps more importantly, Members of Parliament should own the driving seat, advising people, before you build, can you make sure that the land is under the authority of the council before you waste your money. So be the advocates of giving the information. Before you start digging or even paying for that piece of land, find out under whose authority that land is. So be the apostles of advising the public. It is our responsibility.
HON. HWENDE: On a point of clarity!
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is the clarity you seek, Hon. Hwende?
HON. HWENDE: Still, what you have said and what the Minister has said does not invalidate his point of national interest. Despite the fact that he is from the opposition, there is a...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Order, Hon. Hwende! We are not talking about opposition politics here. Please sit down.
HON. HWENDE: I withdraw that part but you must hear my point.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Please sit down!
HON. HWENDE: Is it a crime to mention opposition?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you sit down? In my response, I talked about urban councils and the law. Today, it could be CCC in charge of that city council. Tomorrow, it will be another party.
HON. HWENDE: But why are you invalidating the point of national interest?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Can you switch off your mic, please? I close the matter.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not know if you can indulge me …
THE HON. SPEAKER: I beg your pardon?
HON. MUSHORIWA: I wanted your indulgence and taking advantage of the response from the Hon. Minister to inquire when the Justice Muchena Report will be made public. I think it is a key document that Hon. Members are waiting for.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Please raise that question tomorrow during question time.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
DEATH PENALTY ABOLITION BILL [H. B. 5A, 2024]
Amendments to Clause 5 and New Clause 6 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
DEATH PENALTY ABOLITION BILL [H. B. 5A, 2024]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that with the leave of the House, the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
SECOND READING
PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES BILL [H. B. 2, 2023]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Persons with disabilities Bill [H. B. 2, 2023].
HON. SHIRIYEDENGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, Honourable Members here and all the guests that have graced this House, allow me the opportunity to air out my views concerning the Persons with Disability Bill before us.
First and foremost, I want to put it straight that the Bill should be established to provide the protection of the rights of persons with disabilities rather than establishing the commission. The commission then established thereafter, is a tool to be used to effectively push for the protection of the rights in accordance with the Constitution of Zimbabwe and the United Nations Convention of the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, because of the outdated and dysfunctional Disabled Persons Act (1992) [Chapter 17:01], I would not see how the National Disability Policy launched in 2021 would be enforced. It should be the laws first rather than policies as much as I understand. There are small and minor issues that need to be adjusted in the Bill so that it becomes a strong law. I see it as the interesting turning point in the standard of living for persons with disabilities.
As recommended, grants will be one of the steps that will change the lives of persons with disabilities and will remove them from the street begging. Many countries are implementing this, South Africa just near us. This Bill, when enacted, will remove the ‘them vs us’ syndrome.
If you look at the population of persons with disabilities, it is 1.2 million estimate. I believe it is understated. I think it is a population with special needs that also needs a special piece of legislation to take care of their unique needs. The special piece of legislation is the Bill that is before us.
If the United Nations Convention of the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights of Persons with Disabilities have seen that there should be a holistic shift in the way we are treating persons with disabilities and many countries worldwide, UK, America, South Africa, Kenya, Malawi, Botswana, just to mention a few, have made laws relating the matter before us; who are we to be left behind? Our motto Mr. Speaker Sir, is to leave no one and no place behind, which I think is inclusive of persons with disabilities.
Zimbabwe ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2013 and it is a clear sign that it wants to move forward as opposed to what other Members view. Thus, the Bill is not strange in any way. This Bill is there to make right specific issues affecting persons with disabilities which have been lagging for a very long period of time.
Without this legislative Act, we will continue to have derogatory attitudes about persons with disability, stereotypes through education and media, discrimination which will prohibit full rights and freedoms of persons with disabilities if we maintain the status quo as wanted by some of our Honourables.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the constitutionality of enacting a law is aligning with international obligation reinforced under the new Constitution, Section 327. Enacting this new piece of legislation will entail a paradigm shift regarding the perception and treatment of persons with disabilities in Zimbabwe.
Let me touch on the persons with disabilities and its composition. There is nothing sinister about establishing such, especially when there is critical need to address certain issues. Look at the Land Commission, it was established to address the critical issues of land and we call all to see and witness how production is ramped up although it is not a Chapter 12 Commission. In the Constitution, there is nowhere where it is being prohibited to establish a commission. If done so, it will lead to address issues at hand, especially discrimination of persons with disabilities. Its commission does have its intended purpose to address gaps as in this case, challenges faced by persons with disabilities.
Therefore, I see establishing this commission will address challenges that were not able to be addressed by the ineffective Disabled Board as well as the Department of Disability Affairs. This is very open for everyone to see.
The commission should be composed of a majority of persons with disabilities with relevant qualifications, with the CEO also to be a person with disability. Why do I say so Mr. Speaker Sir? Persons with disabilities have their own motto which says, ‘Nothing for us without us’. It is very clear that they are tired of being represented and nothing has been changing. They want self-representation just like what youths and women are doing.
Furthermore, let us not underestimate persons with disabilities. They are now educated and have qualifications. If you have happened to watch the graduation ceremony done at the University of Zimbabwe on 13 September, 2024, you would have seen that a number of persons with disabilities were capped. This shows that they are now capable to hold high offices of decision making and likewise, should not be left out.
Persons with disabilities should enjoy services within the country like any other citizens, be it usable transport, health, access of infrastructure, employment and empowerment. This Bill is a step to giving them fishing rods instead of fish. Imagine this constituency is only happy on Christmas day when well-wishers bring them food and all sorts of gifts but how many days are in a year? In all other days where there are no donations and gifts, how do we think they will be surviving? Let us embrace inclusivity and give these people what is due to them through enacting laws that will uplift their day to day lives like this Bill. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important, progressive Bill that was brought in by the Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. The Bill reflects human rights-based approach to disability. Indeed it is a crucial step towards ensuring the full inclusion, protection and empowerment of persons with disabilities. My points of debate are informed by the;
- National Disability Policy 2021
- 17 Sustainable Development Goals
- NDS1, 2020 policy document
- Constitution of Zimbabwe 2013
According to Zimbabwe 2022 Population and Housing Census report, the prevalence of disability was estimated to be 9.5% hence PWD are a significant portion of the total population. Passing this Bill dovetails well with Government policy of leaving no one behind.
It is relevant to say this Bill is in sync with the National Disability Policy because it noted that the mandate of overseeing the national disability agenda cannot be left to a single ministry, but needs a whole government approach. It reiterated on having a focal unit or focal point in all Government ministries and agencies. Before the release of the National Disability Policy document, the President said and I quote, “Yes, this National Disability Policy outlines the goals that the Government hopes to achieve with regards to disability inclusion and the methods and principles that it will use to achieve such goals. The policy also goes a step further to inform the on-going process of repealing the outdated Disabled Persons Act (17:01)’’. I unquote. Here we are, the repealing has to be done, right on track with the Persons with Disabilities Bill.
It is my humble submission that disability is a cross-cutting, multi-dimensional and multi-layered issue and I do hereby support it to the creation of a Commission for Persons with Disabilities. Commissioners of the great people with Disabilities must work 24/7 to ensure that the database is updated regularly and all its members will get some disability benefits and obviously that must include monthly payouts.
Status of the Composition
It must be noted that from the public hearings, people were very clear that they want an independent Commission. We are the lawmakers who represent these people, let us amend the Constitution if it means doing so. Let us make them happy.
Composition of Commission
We are making a law for people with Disabilities, this is their Bill and therefore Hon. Speaker, 70% Commissioners must be them and leave only 30% for the rest. In the same vein, the Chief Executive Officer must be chosen from Persons with Disabilities not to say a parent of a child with a disability.
Provincial Representation
Some provinces, sometimes are left behind when Commissions are established. Zimbabwe has ten provinces namely; Harare, Bulawayo, Midlands, Masvingo, Manicaland, Matebeleland South, Matebeleland North, Mashonaland East, Mashonaland West and Mashonaland Central.
Let me repeat and repeat again, each province must be represented so as to conform to the spirit of leaving no place behind.
Gender balance
The Bill does not make reference to the gender composition of the Commission. I therefore, recommend that the Bill makes it explicit that there shall be gender balance in the Commission.
Youth
Usually youths are left out. I will be happy to see the leaders of today and tomorrow participating on leadership platforms as Commissioners, hence the bill is not clear.
Section 83
It is my prayer that this Bill aligns itself to our Constitution. This section binds the State to take appropriate measures to ensure that persons with disabilities realise their full mental and physical potential including measures to:
- enable them to become self-reliant
- enable them to live with their families
- protect them from all forms of exploitation and abuse
- give them access to medical, psychological and functional treatment
- provide special facilities for their education and
- provide State-funded education.
Hon. Speaker, I do support the idea of tax credits to corporates that would have employed people with disabilities. This will Act as an incentive to corporates and generally send a message that people with disabilities are employable.
Accessibility into buildings
The Bill must promote full access to buildings. The Bill provides that PWDs shall have the right to ‘reasonable’ access to all indoor and outdoor places, public transport and information. This is subject to restrictive interpretation. Instead of providing for ‘reasonable access’, the Bill must provide for ‘full access.’
We have the Zimbabwe Gender Commission charged with gender parity issues. We also have Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission that deals with human rights violations. In the same spirit let us have a Commission for People with Disabilities collaborate with these two Commissions to reduce inequalities, abuse, poverty, unemployment and all forms of discrimination.
Bill and sustainable development goals
This Bill will help us to achieve the following SDGs;
SDG1 - End poverty.
SDG3 - Ensure healthy lives and promote well- being for all.
SDG4 - Ensure inclusivity and equitable education for all.
SDG8 - Promote inclusive, sustainable growth and productive employment for all.
SDG10 - Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Before I conclude, NDS1 paragraph 775, states that the Bill of rights places prominence on equality of opportunities and non-discrimination as well as empowerment and employment creation with special focus on vulnerable children, the elderly, and persons with disabilities.
In conclusion, Leviticus 19:14 says; you shall not curse a deaf man nor place a stumbling block before the blind. Let us accede to their request of a Commission and then carry our oversight role as they table their reports annually.
May God bless all People with disabilities in Mpopoma-Mzilikazi and the entire nation.
HON. DR. MAKWIRANZOU: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. Good afternoon to you Sir. I rise to make my contribution to the Persons with Disabilities Bill. Mr. Speaker Sir, disability is not inability but it is God’s wish, which wish we must manage. I therefore argue that there should be a thorough registration of Persons with Disabilities. This is compliant with Clause 11 of the draft Bill. The challenges of Persons with Disabilities must be looked into with emphathy. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities of 2013 had to be domesticated. I therefore, implore that the disabilities list be reviewed from time to time because new disabilities can arise. For example, epilepsy and albinism are now disabilities on the Zimbabwe list. Zimbabwe was one of the first countries to look at disability closely. I concur that as stated in the draft Bill, a Disability Commission of at least seven to nine persons properly gendered with five-year terms, be appointed by the Minister. This Disability Commission should include at least three disabled persons and at least one or two parents or care givers of disabled persons. This is because the parent or care giver have the deepest empathy for the disabled.
On Clause 7, there is mention of a CEO, I propose that only a person with a relevant Masters Degree with skills in fundraising should be employed as CEO.
The Disability Commission should then study and recommend disability quotas. These quotas should be in the following areas:
Firstly, quotas in positions of responsibility must be given. This is because in a lot of cases, disabled persons reach a glass ceiling above which they cannot rise. This quota will be as per Clause 37 of the draft Bill.
Secondly, the Commission should manage all the funds and grants granted to the disabled persons. It would be great to have a disabled people’s bank run and managed by a suitable group of disabled people also giving project loans to disabled people with little or no collateral.
Thirdly, as I stated before, the Commission should also tackle the issue of physiological challenges that disabled people face. For example, going upstairs in multi-storey buildings; fire escapes for disabled persons in factory buildings and many other physical challenges. This is in support of Clause 18 of the draft Bill.
I am glad to note that disabled facilities in rest rooms in buildings are now abundantly available. These should be made compulsory for all buildings and should be entrenched in building by-laws.
Disabled persons need jobs, jobs that are commensurate with their disabilities. At no stage, should disabled people be disadvantaged or discriminated against – again as per Clause 37 of the draft Bill.
Furthermore, I think parents of disabled children need free counselling and training. Psychologically, it can be very painful if you have a disabled child…
HON. BAJILA: On a point of order, the Hon. Member continuously makes reference to disabled children. The current terminology being used is children with disabilities. We need to stick to the CRPD that we say this Bill needs to comply with.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, that is correct. In fact, I was going to mention this at the end. We no longer speak of disabled people, we speak of people with disabilities, children with disabilities.
HON. DR. MAKWIRANZOU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am corrected. I think not only the parents and caregivers but the disabled people themselves must also be given free training in issues like braille and other…
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is people with disabilities.
HON. DR. MAKWIRANZOU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am reading a prepared speech. Persons with disabilities need training in braille for example.
I advocate that all equipment, books and medicines for registered persons with disabilities must be imported duty free. Medicines for persons with disabilities with chronic diseases should also be given free as per the recommendation of Clauses 5 to 8 of the draft Bill.
In conclusion, I advocate and concur with the Portfolio Committee that the Disability Commission, although appointed by the Minister, should be independent subject to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee’s oversight and monitoring.
In addition, in terms of Clauses 13 to15 of the draft, our budget should, as much as possible, meet all the basic needs of the persons with disabilities as enunciated by our Constitution. This should be in lieu of an assistance fund stated in Clause 45. It should be clear that the intention of the Act is to promote the political, private and public participation of people with disabilities. We should respect them and love them dearly.
This Bill will ring true to the mantra and clarion call by His Excellency, Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa that we should leave no one nor any place behind. So, I submit.
*HON. MUNEMO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the disability Bill debate which pertains to the people living with disabilities. I want to appreciate the contributions towards the promulgation of the law which pertains to people with disabilities. I am happy because they are being noticed in most areas, including jobs and also the point that when issues of employment are being discussed; in every 15 people that are employed, two should be with disability. This means that indeed no one will be left behind like what His Excellency the President normally says; no one will be left behind and no place should be left behind. That alone means that we are together as a nation.
There is a research which was explained and which is reflecting in this Bill that those who live with disabilities and their families should, through the relevant Ministry, be remembered in their everyday lives and the clothes that they put on, that alone means that as a nation, we are going somewhere. I appreciate that and I want to support the Bill. I want the Bill to succeed. Those who live with disabilities should have equal access to resources like others. They should be protected like others, looking at their rights – whether it is to do with entertainment and other amenities. The law is clear and there should be a fund set aside for their livelihoods and to protect their rights. That alone gives us assurance that the people living with disabilities would have decent lives. They will not be suffering and they will live a life which they aspire to.
Looking at the same Bill, it talks to children living with disabilities; whether it is in schools or with their peers, there must not be discrimination because of their disability but there should be equal opportunities with other children. The Bill further states a number of things and I am quite impressed because even things to do with projects like construction of buildings or at schools where they will be learning, there should be facilities which have an interface and which accommodates those living with disabilities instead of discriminating against them. Facilities should be accommodative, whether it is the construction of public buildings, this should make access more palatable.
I want to appreciate the other issue which is highlighted, which speaks to the guardians or care-givers of those who live with disabilities. It is difficult for a mother who will be caring for her daughter to provide for the family as she has more responsibilities. The Bill is quite clear that for such parents and guardians, they should be assisted in teaching their children, be it empowering the children with vocational skills. They should be given money for income generating projects so that they are empowered. I want to also note from my reading of the Bill that public transport be availed. Those living with disabilities should be able to import duty free cars.
There is a point that I really did not understand and I do not know how it can be addressed. The point that there are others who live with albinism, yet they are not given access to import duty free cars. They are not under that category. I do not know what can be done to address that. My desire is that those who live with albinism should also be given the opportunity to import their cars duty free since they live with that disability because there a lot of things that they cannot do because of their skin.
I also note in the same Bill that the issue of girls and women is highlighted and it is important that they be given resources which would help them to live normal lives like those who do not have any form of disability. In the same Bill, the issue of giving equal access to jobs is quite important. I am glad that even in the political space, they deserve to participate. We have people like Hon Rose Mpofu and Senator Shiri in this august House and that alone shows that His Excellency the President, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa unites people. It does not matter whether they are disabled or not. This is quite important and I support the Bill. My desire is that the Bill should pass because it is a Bill which is visionary. Those people who live with disability are people like us.
At Ruwa Rehabilitation Centre, there are some handicrafts which are produced by people with disabilities like furniture. This shows that disability is not inability, which means that those who live with disability cannot fail to perform. Those who live with different disabilities are Zimbabweans and they have equal rights to be referred to as Zimbabweans. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much for debating in your mother language. This is quite good.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the Persons Living with Disability Bill. I want to start by saying this Bill was led by the Deputy Minister – I am not seeing her in the House today but l assume that the Leader of Government Business, Hon Ziyambi is taking note.
If you read this Bill, the first thing that comes to one’s mind before going through the Bill is that we, as a nation, are turning a new leaf in respect to our citizens with disability. When you look at this Bill, you will note something which is totally different. The first thing that I need to raise is that the drafting of this Bill leaves a lot to be desired. I actually believe that there are a number of things going through the various clauses that you think that there was no proof reading in respect of coming up with this Bill.
The second issue which is very crucial. This Bill Mr. Speaker Sir, if you go even to the title of the Bill, it starts by saying to provide for the establishment of the Commission for persons with disability. I am actually thinking that this Bill, the Hon. Minister should have made a decision. Is this Bill to be persons with disability or this is persons with disabilities Commission Bill. This Bill speaks to the Commission. Three quarters of the Bill talks about the Commission. It does not talk about people with disabilities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the people with disability are given a small chunk, less than a quarter of the Bill is dedicated to people with disability. What does it say? It then brings a huge challenge and a huge problem in that many of our people in our various constituencies are actually hoping that this Bill would usher a system where people with disabilities will be treated as equal with other people. If you check with it Mr. Speaker Sir, it creates a huge challenge. One of the things that you then look at and this is what I hope the Minister needs to take cognisance of.
We do not want to pass this Bill as if it is a Bill where we are creating employment for certain people to benefit from the disability of some of our people in this country. You do not want to have a situation where you have a Commission with about 15 members the majority of which come from the various ministries, rather than from the associations of people with disability. When you come to the crafting of this Bill Mr. Speaker Sir, you then realise that there were quite some omissions where one of the things that we expected in this Bill was that the Minister was supposed to then focus literally first and foremost, on the various structures of people with disability. They have got their associations. They have got the various organisations.
There is little room that is actually put into this Bill to talk to them. Then if you look in respect to the disability fund itself, there is very little that has actually been put. We know from this Bill that the Minister and the Commission shall be the trustees of that fund. Mr. Speaker Sir, what do we need? We need to see a progressive legislation that then attains to the needs of the people with disability. However, if you check in terms of how the applications of the fund will be dealt with, there is only six or so bulletins pertaining to it and if you see, there is lack of elaboration on matters that deal with the disability compared to the matters that deal with administration by the Commission.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this is where I then think that no, this Bill should actually be called Persons with Disabilities Commission Bill because it talks specifically more on the Commission. I want the Hon. Minister to make sure that we should not lose this opportunity. Let us make sure that when it comes to the various amendments, we need to make sure that we factor and make sure that issues that are affecting the people, our citizens with disabilities, find their way into this Bill, otherwise if we are going to push and pass this Bill as it is, I think it will be a travesty of justice and will not be fair to the generality of our people.
To that end Mr. Speaker Sir, given from what I also heard from my constituency, I will basically also be submitting some amendments that will enrich this Bill because leaving it as it is will not be progressive. In that order Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you so much.
HON. MASHAVAVE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. Today I stand here with unwavering support for the Persons with Disability Bill, which was presented to this House, 9.5% of a total population is a significant portion which cannot be ignored or excluded from the participation in a society. Hence, may I urge the whole House to put their heads together in support of this Bill. Mr. Speaker Sir, Section 22 and 83 of the Constitution obliges the State to take appropriate measures to make sure that people with disability are well protected and taken care of. However, in that regard, I totally disagree with able bodied persons who took advantage of people with disability to use them as begging tools – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Mr. Speaker Sir, more often in our intersections especially in Harare, I witness children with disability being used in a wheelchair just for the purpose of begging. I feel it is very unfair and inhuman. Hence, I urge the Minister to put at least a legislation which protects these innocent souls. The proposed establishment of a Commission which replaced the previous board is a landmark initiative which will serve in formulating policies that will safeguard and protect those people. Countries with similar Commissions such as Canada, have successfully empowered PWDs to ensure their voices are heard in policy making.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in conclusion, one of the most impactful adjustment is the promoting of employment opportunities for PWDs at Clause 37. I strongly support the provision which compels Government institutions and parastatals to ensure that at least 50 employees shall ensure that two percent of its total workforce shall be people with disability. I applaud the Minister for that initiative. I thank you.
*HON. SAMSON: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Disability Bill. Firstly, I want to believe that when this Bill was being discussed and written down, those drafters were trying to make sure that those who are living with disability get a better living, like each and everyone of us who are able-bodied. I think if it was possible, when constructing hospitals, they must also put into consideration constructing a hospital which focuses mainly for people with disability, where they have facilities which are accessible to them. Looking at our hospitals right now, some sections of these hospitals have got stairs. It is difficult for someone with disability to use the stairs to access some of the facilities within these hospitals. A public facility must be accessible to everyone.
I also suggest that when there is distribution of some of our natural resources, for example land to do gardening, people with disabilities should be given first priority. Most of the time we see that people with disability are omitted or forgotten. Sometimes you will find a child is the one who has a disability but the parents do not have disabilities, those parents are not considered beneficiaries, yet they are the ones looking after that child with disability. If they are allocated a garden, where there is water, the parents can use that water to do gardening and make a living for themselves and for that same child.
In addition to that, I also suggest that when there is distribution of housing land as well, it is pertinent to make sure that people living with disability are allocated stands so that they can have proper accommodation. If they are allocated land, they will construct structures which are easy for them to use. All these things I am proposing are a bid to make sure that the persons with disabilities are living comfortably. May the Ministry responsible for people with disabilities be allocated more funds so that they cater for persons with disabilities well, especially women. Women have many needs for them to survive because women are different from men.
I also suggest that the Ministry of Social Welfare be allocated more funds so that this Ministry will be able to cater for persons with disabilities. When they need to go to health facilities, they first go to the department of Social Welfare to get a stamped letter approving them to be attended to. At one point, I was at one of the Social Welfare offices and I saw that persons with disabilities were facing many challenges in getting those letters. The person is supposed to get a letter first before they go to hospital for treatment. When they get to the health facility, they are attended to but they can be told that there is no medication. What it means is that there is nothing she/he can do, they cannot go to a pharmacy to get medicine because the letter does not state that they be given medication for free.
I suggest that we come up with a plan to ensure that when a person with disability gets to a health facility, they must be attended to before they get that letter so that they do not waste their time and energy to get the letter because they do not know whether it will be of help or not. They are supposed to be given those letters as part of their benefits so that when they fall ill, they go to the hospital and get the services. In some instances, you will find that a person is sick and seeking treatment at a local clinic or hospital. There might be need to transfer the patient to a provincial hospital. The challenge here is that they are supposed to be accompanied by someone. The person with disability is not expected to pay in a bus, we applaud that but the person who is accompanying that person with disability is expected to pay their bus fares. How can they pay yet they are accompanying their relative who does not have money? I propose that the person accompanying the person with disability gets the same treatment that they should also not pay bus fare. This person is only helping the person with disability and it does not mean that they have money. This needs to be looked into.
I suggest that the department of Social Welfare be well resourced so that this issue of exempting persons accompanying persons with disabilities to seek treatment is addressed. For example, if she is a woman who is looking after a child who has a disability, the woman is not able to do her day to day activities like farming in the fields because they will be taking care of the child. Disabilities are different, some children cannot walk and the mother will not be able to carry them to the field everyday. It is difficult for the woman to leave their child with disability locked in the house whilst they go to the field. In such a situation, you will find that women will suffer a dilemma, whether to leave their child behind locked in the house or carry them to the field. I see this problem mostly affect women because they are the ones who are expected to take care of the child. Even if the husband is the one who has a disability, it is the woman who carries all the burden. Disabilities vary, there are some who are not even able to help themselves in any way, even to dress themselves. In this case, the woman is expected to be always available to the person with disability to make sure she helps them each and every time when there is need.
I do not know Mr. Speaker, if it was possible, we could set aside some funds, where the money is allocated to those who are taking care of persons with disabilities so that they get some form of assistance. These people cannot have any other income generating projects or any other forms of incomes since they are expected to take care of persons with disabilities 24 hours a day. I also suggest that where there is food distribution in different areas, district or at village level - I once encountered a situation which was very painful, where there was a mother and a father. All of them were blind. They had their child who is working. When they are expected to get assistance or free food, they are told that they have got a child who is working, hence they are not allowed to get food aid. When this child marries, he/she will now focus on her family not on the parents only. As a child, he is expected to help here and there. I suggest that those with disabilities must be given their dues like what our Government encourages, to focus on those who are less privileged, the disabled. I also want to take this opportunity to thank His Excellency, Dr. Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa because he puts those people with disability first and that is why you see that most of the time, the President sets aside some time to visit people with disability. Hence, us as Members of Parliament in our respective areas where we are leaders, we must make sure that people with disabilities are being treated fairly and they are given whatever they are intended to benefit.
I do not know how best we can deal with the issue of hospitals. You will see that especially those with disabilities in the form of blindness, you will find them sitting at the benches without getting any help. They spend most of the times seated. We do not expect such behaviour in hospitals, we expect them to help people with disabilities first. They did not choose to live with different forms of disability but it is a situation or circumstances they find themselves in. So in Shona, they say that do not look down upon someone else in a problem because at the end of the day, you do not know what the future holds for you. There are some other disability types which come when you are already an adult or as a grown up person but you will be viewed as a person with disability, hence it is very important that we must not look down upon those with disabilities. As long as you are alive and still living, you do not know what the future holds for you, hence it is very important to treat people with disabilities respectfully, fairly and also according them enough respect. I thank you.
HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for the opportunity to air my views on the very important Bill, the Persons with Disability Bill. I think what is important is to look at the current position of law, which particularly is the Constitution of Zimbabwe as well as the International Law. Locally Mr. Speaker Sir, the person with disability’s rights are given by Section 22 and Section 83 of the Constitution. Section 22 actually mandates all the State and all agencies of Government at every level to ensure that the rights of persons with disabilities are upheld. Section 83 mandates the State and agencies of Government at every level to ensure that the full potential of persons with disabilities is achieved by probably giving an enabling environment to encourage them to grow. Actually, the Constitution does not consider persons with disabilities as objects of charity but actually should create an environment where there is equality.
On the international front, there is what we call United Nations Charter on the rights of persons with disabilities which seeks to actually encourage governments to outlaw or abolish certain clauses in their constitutions that promote discriminations of persons with disabilities. There is also the African Charter on the Rights of Persons with Disability Mr. Speaker Sir, which also supports or try to ensure that there is conformity in terms of outlawing or abolishing certain practices that create discrimination and creating exploitation of persons with disability. So, this Bill Mr. Speaker, the Persons with Disability Bill comes in to repeal the Disabled Persons Act [Chapter 17:01].
What is important Mr. Speaker, is to look at the tenets of the Bill to see if it is consistent with our local Constitution as well as the international treaties which I have already alluded to. Let me start with Section 4 of the Persons with Disability Bill. It talks about the composition of the Commission. The Commission seeks to replace the National Disability Board. I would like to applaud the drafters in this case because they considered that in the composition of that Commission, due regard be given to the various levels of disability. That is commendable Mr. Speaker Sir.
However, Mr. Speaker, as a recommendation on this one, there should also be due regard to gender. It was not put in that clause. Yes, there is due regard to various forms of disability in the Commission but then we should also consider gender as an important factor. We do not want a Commission which only has seven members appointed by the Minister who are only male regardless of the extent of their disabilities.
Section 4 from sub-section (b – f), it talks about other appointments into the Commission which are made from various ministries which have been given by the Bill. My suggestion is that we must prioritise that those people who are nominated from ministries are supposed to be persons with disabilities.
Going to Section 11, which talks about the functions of the Commission, the functions of the Commission are to keep registers, the register of projects as well as the register of organisations. The stringent requirements for you to be part of the Registrar of Projects. For example, you cannot be in the register of organisations if you are not registered as a private voluntary organisation. So, if you look at the stringent requirements and the demanding situation or issues for you to be registered as a PVO, it might actually cause some gap in the genuine register of our organisations.
Let me get into the issue of the funding of the Commission. It is common cause that from the Bill, the funding of the Commission comes from the Government. There is an allocation which is done by Parliament to this Commission. Secondly, the funding comes from grants, donations, bequests. However, what is important there is a proviso in that Bill which says the funding shall be accepted by the Commission provided that the Commissioner shall accept such donations in consultation with the Minister. There comes a problem to me. Why? The Minister is a politician, we cannot divorce him from politics and as such, we have seen before that some donations made by other political people were not accepted particularly in Government hospitals and other institutions. So, for the protection of the best interest of this institution, can we remove that proviso to ensure that the Commissioner receives donations? Then let me move on to the issue of adjustment orders. It is common cause from the Bill, Hon. Speaker Sir, that a person with disabilities should be allowed to access amenities of a public character with ease. If there is any challenge for a person with disabilities to access such amenities, the Commission is enabled by the law to ensure that they call for adjustment orders to adjust the amenity or the building to ensure that it is relatively accessible to all persons with disabilities.
My recommendation, Mr. Speaker, on this one is that the Bill must actually make it proactive to say that all public amenities that are being constructed in Zimbabwe should actually have reasonable facilities for persons with disabilities. It should be accessible from construction. We do not want to be proactive, otherwise, we will continue to say, do adjustment orders tomorrow, this company, adjustment orders, and so forth. So, it is very important that it be proactive.
So, I would like to move or recommend that in the future, going forward, all amenities of public character must have those facilities in place going forward. It must be clear from the Bill. There is no need for us to say, can you adjust, can you adjust at the cost of the institutions or organisations?
Also, Mr. Speaker Sir, it must be very clear that the Bill must clearly outline some exemptions on the adjustment orders. For example, honestly, it is not proper for adjustment orders to be made at my principal private residence to say that, no, you are supposed to make adjustment orders at your home so that you allow persons with disabilities to visit you and so forth. So, I think there must be some exemptions on this one.
Then, Mr. Speaker Sir, let me talk about the new Bill. It actually seeks to improve the rights of persons with disabilities.
I can conclude, I can actually indicate that the right to education for primary and secondary education is completely free, which is commendable. Employment opportunities in Government are on an equal basis with 2% of all Government posts being allocated to persons with disabilities, also commendable.
Lastly, free legal aid and the right to affordable representation are also important, Mr. Speaker Sir, I appreciate this one. There is an issue, Hon. Speaker Sir, which has been raised on the issue of importation of vehicles for persons with disabilities. The current Customs and Excise Act is already provided for that. However, it does not provide for the importation of personal effects, it only provides for free customs duty on the importation of vehicles. However, it does not provide for the importation of personal goods, such as household equipment or household goods. So, it is important, Mr. Speaker, that it be removed to amend this Act. Can you also include this vital element to say, that persons with disabilities should also be allowed to import other goods, household goods, duty-free and without controls such as those that are being given on some important domestic goods? With this, Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you for the submission.
HON. MAVHUNGA: Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker Sir. I hope you travelled well from the City of Kings and Queens, as well as the other Hon. Members. You are always welcome back. It gives me great pleasure, Mr. Speaker Sir, to know that this House is working on this Bill and that it has been read for a Second time. This Bill, Mr. Speaker, aligns with section 22 of our Constitution and other international obligations. This demonstrates that our Government is committed to leaving no one and no place behind.
God bless our President, E.D Mnangagwa.
Stevie Wonder once said, I am sure we all know Stevie Wonder, the famous musician, “Just because a man lacks the use of his eyes, does not mean he lacks vision”. That quote is profound in the sense that it reminds us that disability is not inability. Hence, our laws, Mr. Speaker Sir, should therefore facilitate for brilliance to be displayed amongst persons with disabilities.
I will touch on three specific points on the Bill, Mr. Speaker said, which are the disability fund, accessibility and the Commission. The disability fund, Mr. Speaker Sir, I think this is a brilliant move because it will bring immense opportunities to persons with disabilities.
The fund, according to the Bill, will look to support vocational training, rehabilitation, and scholarships amongst other things. It no longer becomes a scramble for Africa, when it comes to funding projects and career goals for persons with disabilities. Naturally, our financial institutions are biased towards able-bodied individuals, be it intentionally or otherwise.
Definitely, Mr. Speaker, this fund has to be established because it will create a platform and a space for persons with disabilities to table their projects without serious competition from people like us.
The second point, Mr. Speaker Sir, is accessibility. This is a key point in the Bill. Most of our buildings have no provisions for persons with disabilities. Our buildings are old and come from a pre-colonial era. Our sporting facilities turn a blind eye towards persons with disabilities. If you go to our stadiums today, be it soccer, be it netball, be it basketball, accessibility for persons with disabilities is not considered, even the seating arrangement. If you look at our VIP, for example, at the National Sports Stadium or Rufaro Stadium, VIP is situated at a place where you have to go up the stairs to get to VIP.
What about someone with a disability who wants access to the VIP? Now you have to find people, you have to find marshals to carry the person in a wheelchair to VIP so that they can get access to those services, which I think is in some instances embarrassing and not a good look for persons with disabilities. If you look at our classrooms, Mr. Speaker Sir, our classrooms turn a blind eye towards persons with disabilities. If you look at our tourist attractions, they turn a blind eye to persons with disabilities.
I am glad that this Bill is explicitly emphasising access to facilities. I hope no new building plan will be approved or commissioned without the necessary provisions, Mr. Speaker Sir. So, therefore, I think this provision in the Bill should stay there and should be supported.
The third point, Mr. Speaker said, is on the Disability Commission. This promotes the mainstreaming of persons with disabilities across society. I believe its composition should be biased toward persons with disabilities when appointments are done by the Minister. The majority should be persons with disabilities. Minority should be those affected directly or indirectly by disability. This would bring objectivity to the Commission.
In terms of the CEO, they may or may not be a person with a disability so that we do not continue the trend of discrimination in the job seekers market. However, they need to have the necessary qualifications and skills to tackle the task at hand.
In conclusion, this Bill should go for a third reading so that we do not further delay the empowerment of persons with disabilities.
Benjamin Snow is an inspirational disability advocate. He was born with cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair for mobility. This is what he says, as I conclude. “Disability is natural. We must stop believing that disabilities keep a person from doing something because that is not true. Having a disability does not stop me from doing anything”. Hence, our laws and our country should do the same. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI): Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Members who debated on this Bill, starting from the last Session of Parliament, when the Bill was read a second time by the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and the Committee, through Hon. Mashonganyika, gave its report. The report was debated by several Hon. Members, that is, Hon. Malinganiso, Hon. Tshuma, Hon. Tobaiwa, Hon. Ndudzo, Hon. Mavhunga, and Hon. Moyo. Today, we also had other members who debated, starting with Hon. Shiriyedenga and Hon. Moyo.
Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that I propose that I am going to bring in amendments to the Bill. Mr. Speaker, having listened to those that debated, you see, sometimes when you are doing something, you overlook certain important essential matters. And when I listened to the submissions, I am of the opinion that there is no need for a commission and to get back the board, I think, it is more appropriate.
The problem with the Bill is, there is a silo mentality. We have a whole of Government approach. So, if you look at this Bill, it creates a commission. It does not even mention what the commission is supposed to do. It is not there. I think Hon. Mushoriwa was spot on. I looked at it. If you go to the Interpretation Section, Short Title Interpretation, it then goes straight to Establishment of the Commission. So, it is not speaking about any rights of disabled people. It goes straight to say, Establishment of the Commission and then it goes to the Composition. It would have been better if it would say it is hereby established, this Commission, to do one, two, three, four. It is not there. Then the composition is given, and then it goes to Invited Members. After that, it tells you about the Administrative Structure.
There is an Executive Officer, the immunity that they must be given, the funds that they have that are required, the accounts of the commission, accessibility. After that, it now talks about certain rights, rights of children, and these are not, it is not a function of the commission. It says the Minister shall, the Minister shall, the Minister shall. So, if you look at it, you do not get anything that they have to do except to exist and get funds, which the board can do. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - That is the honest truth about this. The other rights are already in the Constitution.
Let me add that, where you talk about rights of children with disabilities, you now then have to narrow down to those that are not there. Because the Minister of Health and Child Care has policies to deal with all the rights, when you talk about access to justice, you have to then talk about rights that are not given. Like for instance, Hon. Speaker Sir, they speak about Rights to Legal Aid for the Indigent Disabled. The Constitution and our laws obligate the Minister to provide free legal assistance to all indigents. So, I am seeing a silo mentality that was brought in, having listened to the arguments that were brought forward. I agree with Honourable Mushoriwa that we are legislating for posterity. So, we must refine it so that it speaks to what we want the legislation to do rather than have a commission there, and then we have things that we want the Minister to do and there are no linkages between the two. So I think I will propose amendments when we go to the Committee Stage to clean up and have clear functions. If we are yet to have a fund, it must be ring-fenced.
But also, Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to make a small correction. When Hon. Shiriyedenga was speaking, she was under the mistaken belief that we must start with a law and then we have a policy. Actually, it is the other way round. As politicians, we come up with policies. We dream and then we come up with what we call a policy document. It is from the policy document that we then glean and come up with laws. So that is the process that must happen.
So, I believe that we need to tweak it and put our heads together so that we come up with a disability policy that will help our people with disabilities. Where something is provided in legislation, we do not need to put it just because we need to beef up what we call a Disability Act. If it is provided, it is a whole-of-Government approach. We must enforce that so that it happens. That is what I believe. I want to thank those that debated. They actually allowed us to take a look because sometimes it is very difficult to mark your own paper but when somebody corrects it, you can see your own spelling mistakes.
There was also this talk about a Disability Commission, which must be independent. Independent from whom? There is a difference between Independent Commissions supporting democracy because there are several actors who are competing. Where we have a common national objective, why would we want something to be called independent? I do not believe anyone in this august House is in disagreement that we need to have the rights of the persons with disabilities looked after. So I think we will create several monsters that will gobble up the fiscus for nothing because we now need to help them, to treat them like they are independent commissions. I do not think it is the way to go.
We need to have this thinking that we are a family, a whole of Government approach. The notion that the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion must not be contracted when commissions, I would digress, are fundraising, is totally wrong. The Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion, while he is a politician, is in charge of our purse. So, because he is in charge of our purse, in managing that purse, he must be able to appreciate what commissions have fund-raised so that he can also ensure that the gap that is needed is filled. So, it is not an offensive clause. It is actually in all our legislation.
When even commissions want to fill in the vacant posts, they consult the Minister because he will be responsible ultimately, of allocating resources to that. So, it is not something that should be viewed with political lenses, but from an administrative point of view, to say this is the person who is responsible for our monies that are collected by Government and as such, he must take into account the needs of each and every Government agency and funds appropriately depending on the budget that is there. Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe this is a good move and we need to have a Bill to deal with rights of our people with disabilities. We also need to move with the time and I believe that we can improve the Bill, given the conversations that we have heard and come up with a Bill that will speak to what we need to happen. I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 13th November, 2024.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, the House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes past Four o’clock, p.m.