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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 13 NOVEMBER 2024 VOL 51 NO 12

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 13^th November, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received apologies from the Executive. Hon. Gen. Rtd. Dr. C.G.D.N. Chiwenga, Vice President; Hon. Col. Rtd. K. C. D. Mohadi, Vice President; Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance, Economic  Development and Investment Promotion; Hon. M. Mavhunga, Minister of Veterans  of the Liberation Struggle Affairs; Hon. G. G. Nyoni, Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife; Hon. T. Machakaire, Minister of Youth Empowerment,  Development and Vocational  Training; Hon. J. Mupamhanga, Deputy, Minister of Youth Empowerment,  Development and Vocational  Training;  Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Sports, Recreation, Arts and Culture; Hon. B. Rwodzi, Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry; Hon. Sen. M. Mutsvangwa, Minister  of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, Hon. J. Mhlanga, Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development; Hon. Garwe, Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. Kabikira, Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. Prof. Dr. A. Murwira, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. S. Chikomo, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. M. Dinha, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Hon. M. N. Ndlovu, Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. J. Sacco, Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development;  Hon. Z. Soda, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. M. Ncube, Deputy Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. D. Marapira, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement; Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development.

         A good number of these Hon. Ministers are out on national duty.

         ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

         HON. T. KARIKOGA: Good afternoon Mr Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Leader of Government Business in the House.  What is the Government policy on parallel traditional chief structures being installed by the self-proclaimed Chief Munhumutapa?

THE HON. SPEAKER: With all due respect, I think that question needs a lot of research – [HON. MEMBERS: Ah, you want to take over? Hamusati masvika ikoko.] - I think Hon. Karikoga, you can put your question in writing so that the responsible Minister can then do their research accordingly.

HON. BAJILA: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.  The question is there on today’s Order Paper, I asked it. It is Question Number 48.

THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no.  Your reading is misdirected.  This is a different question altogether.  So, my ruling still stands.

 

Your reading is misdirected, Honourable Member. This is a different question altogether.

         HON. GANYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Good afternoon. Through you, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to know if the teachers are exempted from paying school fees for their children's learning at the same institution where their parents would probably be providing their services. I know my question goes to two ministries, mainly the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and that of Public Service, Labour, and Social Welfare.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you very much, Hon. Ganyiwa. Your question demands an evidential narrative because you have to establish where this is happening.  So, put it in writing, please.

*HON. CHINODAKUFA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  What is the Government policy for those who increase the number of lights on their cars, which ends up causing accidents on roads? For example, they put the lights which are used for hunting. So, most of the time, accidents which are happening on the roads are being caused by these people. So, what is the Government policy to prevent those accidents caused by those lights? Thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I also want to take the opportunity to thank the Honourable Chinodakufa for asking that pertinent question.

The question was previously raised but the Government policy is that from the laws which are being crafted in this House, together with the Statutory Instrument from the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, they emphasised that those who are going to install additional lights on their cars are going to face the full wrath of the law.

 So, when they are passing through the roadblocks, those people are expected to face the law where the cars are being taken and sent to VID. I am also encouraging the Hon. Members of Parliament that if you see cars that have got additional lights, take number plates and we are going to follow those people because they are the ones who are causing accidents by disturbing others during their travel.

 

HON. MUWODZERI:  Good afternoon. My question goes to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi. I just want to find out the Government policy with regards to the compensation of urban home owners whose houses were demolished without a court order.

         THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON Z. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.   I indicated yesterday that this is an issue that the local authority is being investigated on and once it has been investigated, then the appropriate sanction on the local authorities will be given. At the moment, it will be premature for me to pre-empt what is being done.  I thank you.

HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO:  Supplementary!  Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The question that was asked was - what is the Government doing to compensate those who have been affected?  You are speaking to local authorities Hon. Minister but that was not the question.

The question is; what is Government doing to those citizens that were affected?  May you please…

THE HON. SPEAKER: Honourable Member, clarifying the original question does not amount to a supplementary question. You want to take over my Chairmanship? – [Laughter.] - The Hon. Minister and Leader of Government Business said he understands the question.  Investigations are taking place and once these are concluded, appropriate action will be taken. It cannot be more complete than that.

*HON. P. MOYO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am not sure which ministry to direct my question to but it pertains to floods and rainstorms that are happening throughout the country.  What is Government’s policy in assisting those who are being affected by floods and rainstorms whose homes are being blown away including infrastructure like clinics and schools?  Right now, most school children are not attending school because of flooded rivers.  What is Government policy in terms of preparation when natural disasters happen?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  The Minister of Local Government and Public Works is not here.  Is the deputy here? I thought I saw your name. Deputy, there.  Are you not the deputy? No, leader of Government Business.

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I also want to thank the Hon. Member for raising that pertinent question. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is during the beginning of the rainy season, even those who are responsible for notifying us about the weather patterns, which is the Meteorological Services Department have already notified that and even the Civil Protection Unit are under the leadership of district coordinators.

When such disasters happen, that is when we are going to explain our measure.  They are the ones who know what protocol to follow to make sure that the Government is notified, the type of assistance that is required and to make sure that the victims of natural disasters get sufficient help.

The DDCs must be notified together with their committees and they know what is supposed to be done to make sure that they help the victims of disasters.

*HON. P. MOYO: My supplementary question is, yes, they know but I want to know if there is any Government policy in place. Indeed, they know and we notify them that school children are not attending school.  What Government policy is in place to make sure that the victims get assistance?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, Hon. Leader of Government Business, perhaps you can expand on your previous answer.

*HON. Z. ZIYAMBI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Hon. Moyo is now expanding her question, mentioning that there are some DDCs who are not properly executing their duties.

According to my understanding, since it is the beginning of the rainy season, I do not think that there is an area which is lacking funding or resources. So, if the Hon. Member knows where a natural disaster has already happened and no action has already been taken, she can approach the Minister of Local Government and Public Works or she can put the question in writing, that in Mwenezi, at such an area, there is a natural disaster which happened and no action was taken. This will help to make sure that investigations are conducted, and also look at why what we agreed upon is not happening.

*HON. SAMAMBWA:  Thank you, Mr. Speaker.  Let me also add to what Hon. P. Moyo just asked. We have already heard what you have said but we are looking at previous situations. The Minister of Local Government and Public Works sent letters to different districts, where he said when there is a disaster at clinics or schools, you see that they were taking money from the Devolution Fund but the infrastructure of clinics and hospitals are being destroyed, the people whom you are referring to as the custodians, whom we expect will make sure that repairs are done are incapacitated.  They do not have money, they just go and see but they do not proffer any solution.

*THE HON. SPEAKER:  Why are they going to see only and not proffer solutions? Why do they not evaluate the level or the degree of the disaster? Let me not answer on behalf of the Hon. Minister. Let me forward the issue to the Leader of Government Business.

*HON. Z. ZIYAMBI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since it is the beginning of the season, we cannot already be having a situation where the responsible authorities are going to see and not come up with a solution because funds have already been set aside for the Civil Protection Unit to make sure that the victims of natural disasters get help.

In addition Mr. Speaker, even the disasters which are happening, both the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development and the Minister of Local Government and Public Works, are going there together to declare national disasters.  Hence, I am equally amazed by the Hon. Member’s statement that nothing is being done whilst we know as Government that a lot of work has already been done on the ground. Thank you.

*THE HON. SPEAKER: Please, do not put forward more supplementary questions.

*HON. B. NDLOVU:  Thank you Mr. Speaker. My supplementary question is, how long or how many days or months can we wait for the damages to be repaired soon after disaster?

*THE HON. SPEAKER: Let me be fair with you. There are a lot of natural disasters which happened yesterday and also on Monday.  The assessment which the Hon. Minister has indicated, there is a disaster fund, so do not overstretch things that are not there. Maybe you could say nothing has been done after a week or so.  The assessment has got to be made as the Hon. Minister has indicated and then corrective action is taken accordingly. So, let us not ask supplementary questions for the sake of it.

*HON. SAMAMBWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question has already been asked. I wanted to ask a question about the disasters which are happening.

HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. We have seen massive plundering of our rich mineral resources by foreigners. The recent scramble for lithium has seen a lot of mountains disappear. In Mvurwi, we have got chrome that is disappearing daily. In Uzumba-Maramba-Pfungwe, Mutoko area, we have got granite that is going. What is the Government doing to ensure that these communities that are losing their mineral wealth also benefit from those mineral resources that are being mined by foreigners? I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Firstly, I want to say that there is no massive plundering of minerals. That is overstretching the so-called foreigners. There is no foreigner who is coming here and mining illegally. They are following the confines of the law and the majority of them are doing whatever is required according to the laws. The communities are supposed to benefit.

 The miners are supposed to follow the environmental laws that are supposed to be there and they are supposed to also do their community corporate social responsibilities. Moreover, they also pay royalties and taxies even to our Rural District Councils. So, I believe that Hon. Members can suggest what they believe must be done that is outside the laws that are already existing instead of overdramatising and saying plundering of communities. We need to say that as legislators, that this is as far as what the law can provide but we believe it is short of what should be done to ensure that our communities benefit. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am not dramatising. I urge the Minister to travel across this country, go to Boterekwa, Mutoko, Shamva, Buhera where there is lithium. There is massive plundering of those mineral resources by Chinese and other foreigners. The Minister must be clear. We are here to ask questions and not to suggest. We will suggest in other plenaries. This is a platform for us to ask what the Government is doing. It is not enough to say that we should be suggesting to the Minister.

Perhaps they have no idea as to what to do in these circumstances. However, my question still remains - what are you going to do to make sure? This is because when we went for Budget consultations with most of the Members of Parliament in here, it was clear from those residents that they are not benefitting anything. The roads in Mvurwi are being damaged but they are taking chrome day in, day out. What are you doing to make sure that those people who are in those areas get something out of the Government? Thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Let me correct one thing. Hon. Matewu, you can ask a rhetorical question which suggests a solution. You are permitted even by the Standing Orders. The Standing Orders do allow you to make suggestions on change of policy or improvement of policy. So, for you to say that you are sticking to questions only, you are reducing your responsibility accordingly. The Hon.  Minister, if you may respond.

HON. Z. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. You have already dealt with the first part well. The Hon. Member is failing to understand that where we have laws and policies that are in place, I respond according to that.  If we have mining laws that permit a person to mine and they are following the laws, then that is lawful but it is not plundering.  Where there is no compliance, then you need to interrogate case by case and see if they certify with the requirements of the law. 

So, the Hon. Member suggests that I am here to answer his question and he wants me to answer the question outside the realm of the law, then you will be offside.  I indicated that there is no foreigner who comes into Zimbabwe, mines and takes away minerals without following due process.  That is within the confines of the law that I must respond to and the policies of this country.

         I suggested that if there is compliance of the laws according to them because they visited and I did not; they noticed that there are issues that need to be addressed, then as an Hon. Member, he is obligated to suggest solutions to say that we have these laws but they are short in that they are not covering some of these things.  What I objected to is to say that we have people who are not following our laws in this country.  I thank you.

         *HON.  S. TSHUMA:  It is true that our minerals are being plundered by foreigners who are coming into Zimbabwe, like what the Minister has already alluded to, that we must suggest and come up with the other ideas which can help; I see that the laws of minerals which we are using right now in Zimbabwe are not strong. I think it is very proper or pertinent for the Minister to stop foreign investors who are coming to mine here in Zimbabwe.  We need to look into our laws and come up with a better solution.  What is happening right now is, there is massive plundering of our minerals throughout the country whilst as Zimbabweans, we are not benefiting anything. 

         The roads are being destroyed and we are not benefiting anything.  I suggest that we stop all the mining activities and look into the law, improve it then we open the mines.  Thank you.

         *HON. Z. ZIYAMBI:  It is a very good idea.  I cannot say he is lying or he is not speaking the truth but what the Hon. Member is saying is the truth.  In Parliament, it is allowed that the Committee or an Hon. Member brings a motion and come up with steps or ideas which can be followed in this august House.  As the Speaker of Parliament, you can look at the document and also allow them to go, consult with people and gather evidence.  Then they can come up with a document which will be presented in this House and that comes with the resolution.  It can be forwarded to the Government and the Executive to work along those lines.  This is allowed.  I thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!  Perhaps we are putting the cart before the horses.  The Mines and Minerals Bill will be presented to the House and at that moment, I think if there are such gaps in that Bill, then please suggest amendments to that Bill particularly, at Committee Stage because at the moment we do not have the law in place until it is presented, hopefully before the end of this year.  So, if you can indulge, wait for the Bill and then deal with the gaps which you appear to be putting across. 

HON. DR. KHUPE:  Hon. Speaker Sir, I wanted to seek clarity on social corporate responsibility.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, that clarity will come when we discuss the Mines and Minerals Bill.

HON. DR. KHUPE:  I thought it is urgent.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, because now we are discussing in a vacuum.  The law is not before us, so you have to wait for the law then make your input accordingly.

HON. MUTIMBANYOKA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Good afternoon to you Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities.  There is an acute shortage of accommodation for our uniformed forces, especially in the cantonment areas of Chikurubi Maximum Prison, Chikurubi Support Unit and Garrison Mechanised Brigade in Msasa.  Does Government have any plans to build more structures in these settlements to ease the pressure as well as to address the plight of our uniformed forces?  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I can answer this because I also have a cantonment area.  Government has started building accommodation for our officers.  The only challenge that we have is the resource envelope and as much as we may want to push to do things like right now, it is not possible but we have already started the process.  We have even appealed to others to help and we have found others who are willing to assist us and the process is now ongoing.  I so submit.

HON. KUKA:  Hon. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Energy.  What is the current national energy policy regarding electricity distribution in light of limited power generation to ensure fairness and equality in terms of hours available for all consumers?

THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Member for the question.  I think the question is looking at the load shedding equity.  When we have limited power, we have areas that cannot be load shed because of their strategic and critical nature.  So, what is happening at the moment is that with this shortage and huge power deficit, those areas that are strategically defined not to get load shedding are within residential areas and industries.  We have no dedicated lines to those areas which cannot be load shed.  As a result, people within that vicinity then benefit.  That arrangement takes a lot of power from the limited power that we have, leaving a very small amount of power which then must be distributed across all other sectors which are not benefitting from this arrangement.  That means that our load shedding regime becomes intense as a result of that arrangement.  So, until our power improves, it makes it difficult.  The discrepancies arise because of the vicinity of some areas to such places that cannot be load shed. 

HON. KUKA:  May the Minister clarify if it is based on Government policy that other areas enjoy more hours with power while adjacent areas endure more than 12 hours without power?

HON. E. MOYO: I think my response alluded to that.  The result of having areas that cannot be load shed having some bigger areas around and the absence of dedicated lines to the specific areas or loads which cannot be shed results in unequal access to power.  I will give an example of Bulawayo.  We have Mpilo Hospital, which cannot be load shed and then around Mpilo we have Barbourfields, Mzilikazi and other areas which then benefit because there is no dedicated line specifically for Mpilo hospital.  What that means is that we are going to have more access to power to those areas than you would have say in Nkulumane.  This is the allusion I can give to exemplify and give an answer to the Hon. Member’s question. 

HON. ENG. MHANGWA:  From the statistics from Zimbabwe Power Company, currently we are generating almost the same power we were generating in winter.  In winter, we had shorter load shedding with the high usage from winter and the winter wheat crop.  Yet now we are having more than 24 hours load shedding.  Is there a crisis that has not been notified to the people or is it a new Government policy that has changed?

HON. E. MOYO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Member for the question.  Let me start by correcting the Hon. Member.  The power that we were generating in winter is not the same as the power being generated now and I will give you the statistics.  Currently, at Hwange 7 and 8, we are running at full throttle and generating 640 megawatts.  At Hwange Stages 1 and 2, during winter, we were at peak for that capacity at 420 megawatts.  Now, we are doing 260 megawatts and as a result of the breakdown of other units, we are now generating power using just three units.  In Kariba during that time, we were able to do up to 300 megawatts but now we are only able to do 100 megawatts which arithmetically means that we are now generating less power than we had during winter.  We were allocated 8.4 billion cubic metres of water for Lake Kariba for use this year but as a result of the need to balance power with activities that are happening in the country, at some point we had to get from Kariba up to 500 megawatts to make up for enhanced or high demand for power.  That has significantly reduced the water levels and we are now left with about 1 billion cubic litres of water which can generate 100 megawatts up to the end of the year.  This means that we have a huge reduction in Lake Kariba and in Stages 1 and 2 in Hwange because of the breakdown of the old generators.  I thank you.

Hon. Eng. Mhangwa having stood up to ask a supplementary question.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, in terms of our Standing Orders, you cannot ask two questions.

         HON. ENG. MHANGWA: It is not two questions.  The Minister intimated that….

THE HON. SPEAKER: What are you up standing for?

HON. ENG. MHANGWA:  When I asked the question Mr. Speaker, it was based on what is on the website for ZPC. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, he is correct.  You cannot ask another question.

HON. ENG. MHANGWA: I said clarity Hon. Speaker and not supplementary.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  What is the clarity that you are seeking?  You are being very technical.

HON. ENG. MHANGWA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, on the 4^th of August, we generated 1128; in September, we generated 917; on 29^th August, we generated 1108 and today, we are supposed to have generated 1128 but we are worse off today than when we were generating less.  We are having more than 24 hours of load shedding.  Something is inaccurate there Hon. Minister.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, if you can unravel the mathematics.

HON. E. MOYO:  I may not comment much on the statistics that he has given going backwards.  What I can only do is to give you that on a daily basis, we receive and I am sure the Hon. Member is privy to what I am going to say; the daily power supply situation report which is given to us everyday in the morning and afternoon.  What I have just given you is today’s figures and the distribution, as I have said, it has been greatly affected by the down-turn of Kariba as a result of significantly reduced water levels.  Some of the power that is being referred to comes from solar and solar by its nature is intermittent.  You have perhaps peak generation for a maximum of six hours per day.  That is why for solar you have a range.  In terms of the power generated every day, you may find that you may vacillate the 20-70 mega watts depending on the climate condition on that day.  Going backwards on the statistics that he has given, I may not be realistic as to what the situation was and what it is now but what it is now is what I have just given.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  My supplementary question is; since the power crisis has become a very big elephant in this room, can the Minister of Finance use all the unallocated reserves to support this vital Ministry to try to revitalise Hwange 1 to 6 so that the issue of electricity challenges becomes a thing of the past?

HON. DR. KHUPE:  On a point of order, I request that the Minister of Energy brings a comprehensive Ministerial Statement stating where the problem is and what the problem is and when the problem is going to be resolved so that at least the public knows and those who can afford solar can do solar.  Once he brings in the Ministerial Statement, questions to do with energy will not be coming every time and again because the Minister will explain to the public to say, this is the problem that we have and this is what we are doing and this is what needs to be done or this is what we cannot do and this is when the problem is going to be resolved.  I think that will deal with this issue of energy. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. hamutauri makagara pasi imi.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: My apologies Hon. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Your supplementary question was directed to the Minister of Finance.  The Budget is going to be presented on the 28^th of November, so may you preserve your contribution accordingly. 

Hon. Minister there is a request for a Ministerial Statement, what is your response?

HON. E. MOYO:  We can do that one – [HON. MEMBERS:  When?]-

THE HON. SPEAKER:  You are obliged.  Next week we have the Summit; so soon after the Summit.  That will give the Hon. Minister sufficient time to prepare himself for that.

An Hon. Member having stood up to raise a point of privilege.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  You will ask that one tomorrow on Thursday.

HON. MASHAVAVE: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and probably the Minister of Transport might come in – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Why do you not simply address your question then – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

HON. MASHAVAVE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir…

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I have not finished.  Can we respect each other? Handidi vanhu vanonyombana. – [Laughter.] –

HON. MASHAVAVE:  My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs.  Stray cows are a menace on our highways hence causing serious accidents along the way.  What is the Ministry doing on that issue?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI):  I think the Minister of Transport is more appropriate to deal with stray cattle than the police.  The police do not arrest cattle and since the Minister is here, he will explain more comprehensively if you allow me to defer the question to him.

THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): On a lighter moment, if you may allow me. The Minister of ‘cows’ is also here – [Laughter] - I want to thank Hon. Mashavave for that very important question which is also worrying us as a Ministry. On a sad note, we have witnessed in this country those who are anti progress in terms of our infrastructure development where we have been erecting fences along our highways and people were busy taking that perimeter fence to fence their own gardens. It is also my humble plea to the people of Zimbabwe to make sure we safeguard our own infrastructure that we have in place.

Indeed, there is a policy that whoever allows his or her cattle to stray is accountable in the event of an accident. That is not enough Mr. Speaker Sir, we will continue through Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe where we have embarked on a programme where we are going to start again putting fences along our major highways. We are saying to the neighbouring communities that you must also take charge of our infrastructure. If we put that fence along a particular section, it is upon the community to safeguard it and make sure that no one will come and take that fence. It is my plea to the people because we have witnessed a number of accidents due to cattle crossing on undesignated places and thereby causing fatal accidents on our roads.

I appeal to those who have farms to make sure that you do fence your farms and that will be well appreciated. Above that, we are going to take that initiative through the Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe where we are trying to see how we can differentiate the fence from the ordinary fence that we have so that if we have colour code, it will be also difficult if you find that fence on the market.

+HON. B. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. What efforts is his Ministry making in terms of completing the different projects along our different roads, especially those that have been hanging for the past year or two? I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Let me thank Hon. Ndlovu for that important question. Indeed, we had a number of projects that had stalled. Once again during this time of the season before this very esteemed august House where we are busy allocating the purse of the nation, it is my humble plea again to also remember the Ministry of Transport so that we get enough budget support to accomplish some of the projects that were being stalled all these years.

Above all, we are not resting and just relying on the fiscus but we are doing initiatives as a Ministry to also partake in the PPP and BOT so that we lessen the burden from Treasury. I urge this august House that if there are initiatives for us to partner with private sector, we are amenable as a Ministry to have such kind of expression of interest where we can pursue other alternatives to fund our road projects.

HON. CHIGUMBU: My supplementary question is, is there a possibility that in the short space of time as we are headed towards the festive season, we come up with a policy whereby our police officers who will be manning our roads can be given bodycams so that we can be able to track if they are properly executing their duties on the road because I feel that this is where the challenges start from?

THE HON. SPEAKER: The original question was on incomplete road works. Yours is a different question altogether.

*HON. MAMBIPIRI: My question is directed to the Leader of Government Business. In this country we have a problem of potable water for domestic use so much that girls and women spend most of their time at boreholes in search of water. What is Government’s plan in terms of assisting local authorities to ensure that water is supplied for domestic use?

*THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Thank you Hon. Member for the question that talks about water which is a human right according to our Constitution. There are two or three reasons that are making it difficult for us to get water. Firstly, rain water was insufficient. In some areas, in the past 100 years, we have received so little water, which means that the dams will have little water also. Looking at this issue, there are two things that are happening. There are some local authorities that are unable to treat water on their own such as Murambinda and others. So Government through ZINWA, has allocated funds to supply raw water from the dams such as Marovanyati Dam in Buhera. That water can be reticulated. The same goes for areas like Chivhu. Then, there are other urban local authorities that are a bit more advanced and able to supply water on their own such as Harare and Bulawayo where Morton Jeffrey or Prince Edward have their reservoirs where they can then distribute water.

That is where we realised that they have a problem in supplying water to every ratepayer because the money that they are collecting as revenue is not being used for water reticulation alone but for other things. In order to assist Harare and Bulawayo, as Government, we have come up with a technical committee that is going there to assist them with ideas on how best the little revenue can be used. The second thing is that the reticulation system in urban areas still uses pipes and there are areas where there are no pipes. Government has also launched a programme to install boreholes. In Harare, we have drilled more than 100 boreholes. We have also given Harare Metropolitan Province a drilling rig that stays with the Minister of State for Harare Province. In Bulawayo, we have also done the same thing and this is to ensure that they chip in where there are water problems. We know that when we are sinking boreholes, sometimes we do not get the water. So those are the efforts that Government is doing. We know that most of the local authorities do not have the capacity to construct dams, so that is when Government comes in looking into urban expansion and trying to project the possible expansion as well as where they will get their water supply from.

We have plans on where we are going to put dams for that matter. For example, in Bulawayo, we think Gwayi-Shangani will solve all the water problems of Bulawayo. If we get money on the 28^th November, 2024 this month during the budget presentation, we expect that we will be able to resolve the water crisis that the local authorities are facing. As Government, indeed we are troubled that girls and women spend most of their time at the boreholes and not being able to do other jobs for their upkeep. I thank you.

*HON. MAMBIPIRI: Thank you, the Hon. Minister has explained in detail and indeed said that the money that is being collected by the local authorities is not enough to provide water but looking at what is obtaining on the ground, it seems you are only assisting Bulawayo and Harare. Do you have any other examples of urban areas where you are assisting, such as Kadoma and Chinhoyi because Zimbabwe is not Harare and Bulawayo. It covers everywhere.

*HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would also like to thank the Hon. Member. If the Hon. Member was listening attentively, I started with smaller urban areas like Murambinda as well as Chivhu. That is how I ended up going to Bulawayo and Harare. That means clearly that the Government is covering everywhere. If there is any specific town that you think we can assist in any way, please help us because every day we look at 30 urban areas on how much water has been supplied and the possible forecast on how long that water will take.

We also focus on 150 dams that are supplying water, so if you can specify the towns. If you can put it in writing then we can also give you the forecast on how much water the reservoir has and possibility of how long the water will take. This is what we want to do. However, many people think Government only comes in to assist on water. Government is the biggest supplier of raw water in Zimbabwe. As ZINWA, we have 534 water treatment plants around the country. Government is the one that is more advanced in terms of supplying water.

HON. ENG. MHANGWA: The point of order is, he has spoken eloquently about those engagements and it is noted. The issue is the municipalities that have water in a drought year like this one are already at 81%. They have pipes coming to the people but the missing link is the Chigayo that you mentioned, the water treatment works that needs upgrade. If you proffer a solution that works for those that have no water or proffer a solution for those that do not have dams, they are left behind. This is the segment of the smaller towns not townships but smaller towns like Chinhoyi, Kadoma, Kariba and Karoi.

HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you very much and I thank Hon. Member for the very logical interruption. Now he is very specific Mr. Speaker Sir, about the towns that he is mentioning for which additional work will be required to examine their actual problem. We will be able to avail the detail in due course. Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you.

HON. NGWENYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary concerns the issue of water. The President or Government’s mantra is not to leave anyone behind. I am referring to issues of borehole water. What is the Ministry doing in order for other places or other constituencies not to be left behind? I have seen places whereby they now have up to 80 boreholes while other constituencies have none or even one. What is the Ministry doing to equitably distribute the boreholes to all constituencies? I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] –

HON. DR. MASUKA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank the Hon. Member for the question, though slightly different. The issue was about water provision and support by Government to these presumably urban local authorities. Now the question is about water generally and equitable water availability in the constituencies. The Hon. Member will recall that His Excellency, Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa declared that no one and no place will be left behind. It is in that regard that the Presidential rural development programme was launched with the aim of availing water to the 35 000 rural villages and the plan was to procure a 100 drilling rigs, 80 for ZINWA, 20 for RIDA and so far 31 rigs have arrived.

They have been allocated to the provinces and some provinces depending on the number of villages they will have more up to four-five rigs and some like Harare and Bulawayo only one each. The policy intend is there to provide water equitably to all communities throughout the country irrespective of where they are. The implementation of that policy however is lagging behind on account of resources. That we do not have sufficient resources to be able to do everything that we would like to do and what the Hon. Member would want us to do in the specific constituencies.

However, because of the drought that we are going through now, we have seen that the Regions four and five, the lower rainfall regions are hardest hit. We have had to re-configure the programing to enable us to focus on these drought-stricken regions. They have 1 035 rural wards, regions four and five and in these regions, we have prioritised 635 wards where we are drilling boreholes and as of Monday, we had covered 372 wards. That is where the focus is when we have the normal rains and expected rainfall that we expect.

We will be able to return to normal programming and to be able to go back to the normal drilling where we will be able to drill within the wards and the drilling rigs are allocated to provinces and there is a drilling schedule that indicates the rig route in a particular province. I urge Members to familiarise with that route and if they want to input into the changes so that priority communities are approached first, then they can do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MACHINGURA): Order, Hon. Members, when the Speaker says order, he expects all standing Members to sit down and listen to the Chair.  Hon. Ngwenya, your question was a new question.  There was a question that was on the floor, fortunately you have been answered by the Minister.  To those who are saying supplementary, I need to know which supplementary, of the unfinished question or the question of Hon. Ngwenya? 

         HON. NGWENYA: On a point of clarity!  I have heard the Minister saying that they are actually pursuing their programme but the issue I was asking is how they do it.  Are they saying they are following a programme where they drill 100 boreholes in one constituency yet the next constituency has nothing?  This has been happening continuously, so I was asking for a solution whereby boreholes are shared.  If they are to be shared in dry constituencies, they should be shared equally all over the constituencies in our areas.  Thank you.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ngwenya, the Minister has said there is a schedule which he had asked the Hon. Members to familiarise themselves with.  Once you are familiar with it and there are questions around that area, then you can always ask the Minister of Agriculture.-[Hon. J. Tshuma having wanted to raise a point of clarity] – On which question?

         HON. J. TSHUMA: The original question. 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: So, we are through with boreholes?

HON. J. TSHUMA:  No, it is about boreholes.  I wanted to find out from the Minister if he is aware of what this programme is doing down there.  What is occurring is that ZINWA is drilling holes not boreholes.  They are just drilling and leaving it like that.  There are so many holes that have been drilled.  They do not come back to finish up by putting all the necessities so that water is then drawn.  Most of the time they are not there.  When they are there, they do not have the fuel, particularly in Bulawayo, they came and then it broke down, they never came back.  Like in Bulawayo, I just saw one borehole which was drilled and it was incomplete.  I completed it with my own money.  I thank you.

HON. DR. MASUKA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member wholeheartedly.  I think when we say we want resources to be able to do boreholes and to complete them as per plan, this is what we are talking about.  ZINWA has a rig and that rig is deployed to a particular area.  We make the policy decision that we require USD5 000 to be able to do a village business unit, as an example.  However, that is a series of things, it is siting of the boreholes.  So, we cannot stop siting because we have people already employed.  They will continue to go and site for 35 000 villages, even if we have the money or not.  That process will continue.  Then, because we have 31 drilling rigs which we have already acquired as Government, we will not leave these idle at the office until I can get the pipes for equipping the borehole.  I will go and drill the boreholes and leave a hole.  That is the first thing, before it becomes a borehole.  It is actually good progress.  We have made so much progress.  The Hon. Member is seeing progress that there are holes that are there.  The Hon. Member is saying, please complete, for which we want more resources.  I thank you.

+HON. S. MAHLANGU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary question is that the Minister said that in Bulawayo, there are boreholes that were drilled.  Where exactly were these boreholes drilled because the locations which are hotspots do not have boreholes?  May be the Hon. Minister can specify the exact wards where we find those boreholes.  For those outstanding boreholes, he can also clarify when they will be coming.  Thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mahlangu, do you think the Minister has got that information right now?  Are you asking him to go and produce that list or you want it now? 

HON. S. MAHLANGU: May he kindly bring it because we just want to know as people from Bulawayo.  I thank you.

*HON. S. TSHUMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I would like to appreciate the Minister of Agriculture on the issue of sinking boreholes.  I want to add on to what the last speaker said.  There are some boreholes which are sunk which are empty and they accumulate water.  Those boreholes are left open and these are challenges that we find.  As the Ministry of Agriculture, through ZINWA, the Ministry knows the areas which have need and the machines that are needed.  What does Government plan to do regarding boreholes that have been surveyed which have not been completed?

*HON. DR. MASUKA: I thank the Hon. Member for that question.  The question is; when the surveyors have done their work and they failed to find water at a certain point yet they would have dug, what are the plans to complete those boreholes?  The Hon. Member feels that it might be caused by the machines which cannot go as deep as the required depth.  What technicians say is different from what has been raised.  We believe that we have granite, this is the geology that we are alluding to, which means that digging deeper, the machines sometimes might find challenges in these rocks.  When they do not get the water, it is because the water table has gone down, it is deeper than anticipated.  Specialists say that where they dug, the reason why they did not cover those holes is because they believe that when the rains come, they will then have to go and check on the following year to determine what the position would be regarding the water table.  If the water table is at a level which can be worked upon, then they will do that.  When it is not the case then they will have to go with a different plan.  We normally say that specialists should be sent to go and learn so that we do not sink boreholes and they go away without tapping into the water table.  So, we need that specialist knowledge.  In the past, we used indigenous storage systems.  So, we say that if they use their scientific approach together with the indigenous knowledge systems, then we might know where the water is.  We need to deploy all the tools that we have because we do not have much money and we cannot use inadequate machines where there is no water and where we know that we will not find the water.  I thank you.

         *THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, I believe that everyone is happy with the explanation that you have given and the good work. What is being alluded to regarding the holes and other things, maybe the way specialists explained to you is different from what is happening on the ground like what has been said by Hon. Members.  Is it not possible to carry out another research so that the plight and the issues that are being raised by Hon. Members are addressed?  I thank you.

         *HON. MHETU: I want to thank the Minister for the rigs that were bought in different provinces even in Harare. The challenge is that I am one of the people who went to the Harare office requesting for boreholes and I was told that the rig is there but it does not have diesel and pipes which are referred to as casings.  I noted that those who benefit from the rigs are the rich who have money for fuel, casings and pump installation.  Those who are poor do not benefit. When they have money, they will discover that the rigs will be malfunctioning.  I want to give an example of the Epworth Constituency where you find 2 000 children in one school and there is no water.  When you request for a rig, you are told that we need money for diesel and casings.  My question to the Minister is, what does the Ministry do regarding providing rigs for people who come from poor constituencies, for example areas like Epworth and others?  I thank you.

         *THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mhetu, before handing over to the Hon. Minister, I want to understand the money that you budgeted for as a Member of Parliament.  Which one was allocated to the rich and which one is allocated to the poor because the challenges of financing have been mentioned by the Minister?  He said that when resources are there, projects will be completed.  Those that you are alluding to as those who bring their resources but in the budget, was there anything allocated to the rich and the poor? Was there a demarcation?

         *HON. MHETU: May I rephrase my question to the Minister then I will respond to the question that you asked Mr. Speaker.  The question is, are rigs functioning whilst they are going to the constituencies where there are rich people? When they are going to be allocated to Epworth and other poor communities they will be malfunctioning.  So, the question is that from the rigs that were allocated, when are they going to be given to us the poor? 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I do not believe the question that you asked concerning the rich and poor would suffice.  I thank you.

HON. MAKUMBE: I want to direct my question to the Minister of Sports.  I want to know what plans Government has regarding the renovation of our National Sports Stadium.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, do you have a particular sports stadium?

HON. MAKUMBE: I was alluding to the National Sports Stadium.

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORTS, RECREATION, ARTS AND CULTURE (HON. JESAYA):  Thank you Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Makumbe for that question which the Hon. Member asked in the past. The Ministry is working tirelessly to renovate the National Sports Stadium so that it can host our matches.  As a Ministry, we bought 30 000 bucket seats.  As I am speaking, they are at the Beira Port being cleared. There is the other issue which was there at the National Sports Stadium, the water reticulation has been done and I believe as time goes on, we are going to show the progress to the House. I want to promise that our soccer matches will be played here in the short space of time. I thank you.

         *HON. ZVAIPA: My supplementary question is, the Hon. Minister said there are 30 000 bucket seats which are coming in a stadium with a capacity of 65 000, how about the rest? When are they coming? Are they already in the country or they are going to be bought? I thank you.

         *HON. JESAYA: Thank you, I want to thank the Hon. Member. The 30 000 seats that I alluded to as the first consignment of the bucket seats. There is a total number of 60 000 and the rest are coming and they have been paid for. I thank you.

         *HON. MAKUMIRE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question is, from what we have been told by the Hon. Minister, when can we expect that our team will be playing from our local stadium because it pains to find our soccer team playing in another country as if we are poor? I thank you.

         *HON. JESAYA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for that pertinent question. We desire that the good job of renovating the National Sports Stadium should be done as soon as possible so that we can go and support our national warriors playing locally. 

 I cannot give a specific timeline for when the project will be completed because some factors are beyond our control but the job will be done by –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members on my left, can the Minister be heard in silence, please?

*HON. JESAYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. As I said, I cannot give a specific timeline but our desire is that this job should be done as soon as possible.

HON. GUMBO: On a point of order! Mr. Speaker Sir, we are adults and some of us are educated. Any project has a timeline, any project has specifics. You know how many buckets since you are buying, you know from where you are buying, you know when you are going to install them and you must know when the project will be complete. You cannot say yee yee I do not know, I cannot commit, you are the Minister, give us the specifics for the project. 

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please withdraw what you said to the Minister. Please ask your question and do not display that behavior.

HON. GUMBO: Hon. Speaker, I withdraw ‘yee yee’

         THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Hon. Member is dramatising, he is not speaking to the situation that is obtaining in our country. Hon. Speaker, we all know that for capital development, we are using what we are collecting and the Hon. Member is trying to force the Minister to say things that they as Hon. Members are failing to solve because we have sanctions. We cannot borrow – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] - So, when we cannot borrow and we eat what we hunt, he then comes here with a rhetoric-useless story. I think he is not being fair to the Hon. Deputy Minister. I think we do not need to dramatise. We know what we collect, we know the resource envelope that we have and the Hon. Member is saying you must tell us, tell us from where?  You must tell us when they are going to advocate for the removal of sanctions so we can borrow like everyone else and we have…

HON. GANYIWA:  On a point of order. Thank you Hon. Speaker. I think Hon. Members from the left side have got a tendency to disrespect the Hon. Speaker, especially when the Hon. Speaker has left that Chair. They tend to dramatise every situation – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members do not do that.  You have indeed been disrespecting – [HON. GUMBO: Inaudible Interjections.] – Hon. Member, I will ask you to leave the House, please do so now.  Sergeant-at-arms, may he please leave the House. 

HON. GUMBO: But Mr. Speaker, I withdrew

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What did you withdraw?

HON. GUMBO: ‘Yee yee’

HON. MHANGWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.

We are on the correct path. The Minister had already alluded that the bucket seats were coming. She has a timeline. She alluded that the second batch is coming. She has a timeline. Then Hon. Ziyambi comes and becomes dramatic. The other side is the one that is...

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mhangwa, please take your seat.           Hon. Members, let us not treat this House as a circus, please.  Are we all agreed that we have been answered by the Hon. Minister?

HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO: On a point of order! Okay. Hon. Speaker, there is a question that has been posed to the Minister. The question is a project management question.  When you are doing project management, you must know when your project is ending.  

It is a simple question that she has to answer. Thank you. 

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the Minister did not say she is not going to answer you. Maybe give her time. Put it in writing. She will answer you. Put your question in writing.

*HON. CHIGUMBU: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Minister was still responding. She was not yet through in responding to the question. The Hon. Minister was still to contribute to a point of order that was raised by Hon. Gumbo.  So, what Hon. Ropa is saying is true. The Hon. Minister had to stand down for the point of order.  

So, can you allow the Hon. Minister to finish so that you can get to the next level?

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, the Hon. Leader of Government Business, he got in and gave you an answer. There are no more answers that are coming from the Hon. Minister.  He has given you the circumstances that can prevent a day, a finished date of the project to be given. I think we agree on that one.  

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Health and Child Care. What does the Government plan to do with the shortage of blood and the cases of women dying during childbirth? I thank you.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. KWIDINI): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I want to appreciate the Hon. Member for that question.  Indeed, it is a challenge which we are facing, especially with the prices of blood. As a nation or as a ministry, we have been working with the National Blood Services, which is our development partner which has been availing blood at an affordable price. As the Hon. Member said, we have a challenge as Government because we do not have enough funding and it is a challenge for us to be funded by development partners.

I believe that the budget will be presented on the 28^th, which means that monies or allocations that we requested as a Ministry, we believe that given that allocation, then we will be able to procure blood which will benefit those in labour and other people who need blood transfusion at an affordable price. 

On the same vein, noting that development partners are increasing prices, we have started a programme at Parirenyatwa Hospital, that as a Ministry, we are creating our own blood bank.  It It is still a bit low but, we believe that in the budget that we requested for, if we can buy machines as a Ministry, then we will be able to go to different parts of the country, like what the National Blood Services has been doing, collecting blood from schools and different blood donors, then creating our own blood bank at Parirenyatwa Hospital.

I believe that if everything that we can think of regarding the health of our people, the Ministry is seized with the matter and if given the allocation, then we will be able to implement this. I thank you.

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I want to thank the Hon. Minister for that response. We note that there is a disaster fund, which is money.  Can we not virement and utilise the disaster fund as an alternative in cases where you find women giving birth with insufficient blood?   Instead of allocating that fund to roofing hospitals, can we not channel it then to address the shortage of blood? Thank you.

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Who said building villas? Who spoke about villas, the building of villas?

*HON. KWIDINI:  Thank you.  I want to thank Hon. Mapiki for that pertinent question. Indeed, it is true, that is a good suggestion that money can be channelled to this particular issue but I do not believe that this is possible because we would have requested for funding for blood and that money has not been released from the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion. So, we are still engaging the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion so that the money can be released to come and cover this gap.

We had a meeting in the morning with the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion officials as the Ministry of Health and Child Care.  We were requesting for the release of the 2024 allocation which will assist us as a Ministry. Thank you.

*HON. KUKA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I would like to get an explanation from the Hon. Minister regarding a programme which was being done in the past where the Red Cross, working in conjunction with the Government, would go to schools collecting blood for free.  They would appreciate the children with bread and mazoe.  How did the programme go and what is happening now?

*HON. KWIDINI:  Thank you Hon. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for that supplementary question. I believe when we address this issue, it will take us back to an issue where you would find that we do not have development partners because of sanctions. Those development partners who used to fund us are no longer funding us because of sanctions.  When we collect blood from schools and from donors, we do not just take the blood and use it but it must be purified first before being used. But because we do not have an adequate budget for that and the development partners are no longer coming …

HON. ZVAIPA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir!

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order?

*HON. ZVAIPA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I believe that the issue of sanctions in this House is taking us back. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Why do we not – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -  I am saying that as a country…

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  What did you want to say Hon. Member?

*HON. ZVAIPA:  I am saying that as a country, why do we not advocate for the removal of sanctions, if sanctions are in existence?

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, order! There is no point of order.  Hon. Minister, can you finish your submission?

*HON. KWIDINI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Like what I said before that we had development partners, we had the National Blood Services which used to work with our Ministry and would pool resources.  Now that development partners are no longer funding National Blood Services, we do not have adequate resources to fund this project.

We may be having a little bit of money but we do not have much so as representatives and as legislators, we need to come up with suggestions which will benefit our nation. We need a solution and need to unite to remove sanctions.  I noticed that on 25^th October, we worked in unison to fight against sanctions.  This will help us so that we get funding. Thank you.

*HON. KARENYI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to refer to what the Hon. Minister said about ideas that we can assist with and proffer. These issues are of importance.

We are talking about women as they deliver, there is lack of blood.  What used to happen in the past was, people would be encouraged to donate blood. The problem is when there is need for blood, the problem is that the blood is very expensive to buy but in a family set-up, a child can assist the mother because they are close.  The problem is, indeed there is an issue of unpurified blood but is there no policy that can assist to ensure that the processed blood can replace the one that has not been processed so that we may save lives and so that we may also encourage people to donate since the reference will be with regard to their close relative?  I thank you.

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILDCARE (HON. KWIDINI): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the suggestion and question. The problem is that there is no lack of blood from the donors. The problem is the processing aspect and that is where a lot of money is needed. We realise that if we depend on donors, the moment that they pull out they become disadvantaged. Right now, we have plans of processing blood at Parirenyatwa but it is at a very small scale.

We are appealing that in the forthcoming budget, we should be allocated more funds to process at a bigger scale. That will actually ensure the reduction of blood prices. This is because right now, blood is only processed by private players. Indeed, I agree with the suggestion but the most important thing is that we need funding to process blood so that the price comes down. I thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 68.

*HON. C. HLATYWAYO: Point of order Mr. Speaker. I notice that after the first session, the Hon. Ministers leave and a few are left behind. Most of them have got outstanding and pending questions that spend a lot of time on the Order Paper. Is there no intervention that you can make to ensure that ministers spend the whole sitting here since this day has been set aside for that for us to ask questions to the Executive here represented by Hon. Ministers?

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of Government Business, did you hear the request from Hon. Hlatywayo?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. Z. ZIYAMBI): Thank you, I heard that. I will speak to them.

PROGRESS TOWARDS DRILLING SOLARISED BOREHOLES IN CHIPINGE SOUTH

36. HON. C. HLATYWAYO asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House on the progress made towards drilling solarised boreholes in Mahenye, Makoho, Chisuma, Chisurudza and Chikonwe in Chipinge South.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. HARITATOS): Good afternoon, Hon. Speaker. I was told that Questions 36 to 41 were answered the last session. Thank you, Hon. Speaker Sir.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: They were answered?

HON. HARITATOS: Yes, they were answered Mr. Speaker Sir.

HON. MUROMBEDZI: Point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I have a question that is within the range that has been said that they have answered but the question was not answered. We did not get a response to Question Number 40.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think that Hansard Department can assist us Hon. Murombedzi. We will hear from Hansard if it was answered or not.

COMPENSATION OF FARMERS WHO LOST LAND TO ARDA IN 2019

• G. K. HLATYWAYO asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development to inform the House on the plans in place to compensate more than 3000 farmers who lost agricultural land in 2019 in a deal between ARDA and a private sugar-cane company which affected people in wards 26, 27, 29 and 30.

        THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. HARITATOS):  The Ministry is not aware of such developments and we thus request that the Hon. Member furnishes more information, particularly on the size of the land in question, the number of people who were affected by this apparent deal, which district they reside in and the name of the private sugar-cane company.  I thank you.

POLICY ON MEMBERS OF THE ZIMBABWE NATIONAL ARMY WHO COERCE TRADITIONAL LEADERS TO VOTE FOR A CERTAIN POLITICAL PARTY

44. HON. MURERI asked the Minister of Defence what Government policy is on members of the Zimbabwe National Army who go around addressing political rallies, threatening and coercing traditional leaders to vote for a certain political party.

THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. O. MUCHINGURI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank the Hon. Member, Hon. Mureri for the question which requires me to explain the Government Policy on members of the Zimbabwe National Army who go around addressing political rallies, threatening and coercing traditional leaders to vote for a certain political party.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to state that the Ministry of Defence, and by extension, the Zimbabwe Defence Forces are a creation of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, through Section 208 clearly spells out the guidelines on the conduct  of members of the security services, which the Zimbabwe Defence Forces are aware of these constitutional provisions that they are not required:

1. To act in a partisan manner
2. To further the interests of any political party or cause,
3. To prejudice the lawful interests on any political party or cause or
4. To violate the fundamental rights or freedom of any person.

Furthermore, the conduct of members of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces is regulated by the Defence Act Chapter 11:02, the Defence Policy and the attendant disciplinary regulations as provided for in Sub-Section 211(4) of the Constitution which states that ‘The Defence Forces must be maintained as disciplined military forces’

Sub-section 211(5) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, further states that, ‘An Act of Parliament must provide for the organisation, regulation, discipline, promotion and demotion of officers and other members……..of the Defence Forces.’

Mr. Speaker Sir, the Act of Parliament referred to in Sub-Section 211(5) is the Defence Act Chapter 11:02 which provides for the establishment of military courts which are mandated to punish any members of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces who commit military offences.  There are many levels of military courts, with varying powers of punishment and jurisdiction, depending on the matter and ranks of offenders to be tried.

The highest level of these military courts is a general court martial, which may be convened by the President and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces in terms of Section 49 of the Defence Act, Chapter 11:02.  It should be noted that court Martials are competent courts, constituted in line with the provisions of the Constitution, which in terms of Sub-Section 50(2) of the Constitution, the rights of an arrested and detained person are to be respected.  This Sub-Section states that, ‘Any person who is arrested or detained and who is not released must brought before a court as soon as possible, and  in any event not later than forty-eight hours after the arrest took place or the detention began’

From the above statements, it is clear that the pieces of legislation available in the Defence Forces are adequate to govern and regulate the conduct of members of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces and all members are familiar with these provisions.

Mr. Speaker Sir, let me reiterate that military courts are mandated to try ZDF members who commit military offences.  In the event that there is a complaint from members of the public over the misconduct of a member of the Defence Forces, we are grateful that Government established  and Independent  Complaints Commission in terms of Section 210 of the Constitution which states that, ‘An Act of Parliament must provide and effective and independent mechanism for the receiving and investigating complaints from members of the public about misconduct on the part of  members of the security services, and for remedying any harm caused by such misconduct.’

Having said that, Mr. Speaker Sir, I need to emphasise that the Zimbabwe Defence Forces are a People’s Force and their interaction with communities or traditional leaders should not be misconstrued as political.  They recruit from the communities; they live within communities in which they operate and they have a mandate to provide military assistance to civil communities in times of disaster or whenever requested to do so.  Their relationship with communities is like fish and water.

During such interactions, members of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces are quite cognisant of the need to observe provisions of Section 211(3) of the Constitution which emphasises the need to respect the fundamental rights and freedoms of all persons, to be non-partisan, to be national in character, to be patriotic, professional and above all, to be subordinate to civilian authority.  So, there is no way that members of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces would attempt to subjugate the sovereign authority of traditional leaders when they ae required by the Constitution to remain subordinate to civilian authority.

Section 212 of the Constitution mandates the Defence Forces to protect Zimbabwe, its people, its national security and interests and its territorial integrity.  Pursuant to this proviso and in line with Civil Protection Act Chapter 10:06, the Defence Forces have a community, quasi–Government Departments or other ministries in times of public emergencies.

In addition to this, the Zimbabwe Defence Forces also assist civil communities in the construction of physical infrastructure such as clinics, school blocks and bridges during the Defence Forces Community Assistance Week, each year.

Mr. Speaker Sir, the nation might be aware that the Zimbabwe National Army hosts the Traditional Leaders Day, each year, in each of the country’s eight provinces during which our Forces interact with Chiefs and their subjects, aimed at cementing the historical and symbiotic relations which exist between the ZDF and the people.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question and it is my fervent hope that my short presentation has adequately addressed his concerns. I thank you.

         *HON. MURERI:  I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for answering the question eloquently.  It has shown that she knows the law that should be followed in her Ministry.  My supplementary question is, do you remember what General Sanyatwe said at a ZANU PF rally – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, order. The Minister has been very exhaustive – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order.  The Minister has also said that there has been a Commission that was put in place and a Complaints Commission where members of the public, if there is anything that has been done – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

         *HON. MAKUMIRE:  On a point of order Hon. Speaker, if you were listening to Hon. Chokururama, he said Hon. Mureri vanopenga – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

 

         *THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chokururama, did you say that? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order, order. Where are you Hon. Chokururama?  Did you say that?

         *HON. CHOKURURAMA:  I did not. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Handei kuHansard] -

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Clerks-at-the-Table will check with the Hansard so that we hear what the Hon. Member said. 

*HON. MAKUMIRE:  If words that are not appropriate are said, then they should be withdrawn.  Hon. Speaker, you asked whether such words were said – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order.  As the Speaker, I did not hear any of that but we have requested the Hansard to provide a record and when that record has been provided and we have seen that the Hon. Member said inappropriate words, then we go back to that issue.

HON. MALINGANISO: On a point of order, the Hon. Member mentioned a name of a human being that cannot come and defend themselves in Parliament – that is General Sanyatwe. 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  But we have not allowed him that, so it does not make any difference - [AN HON. MEMBER:  He should withdraw.] -  He must not withdraw anything, we have not allowed him to debate.  Order, order!

*HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO:  The Hon. Minister spoke about the Independent Complaints Commission.  I would like to know where we are – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-  May I be protected Hon. Speaker?

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, may you allow the Hon. Member to be heard in silence – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

*HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO:  I would like to know where we are now with the Independent Complaints mechanism. Regarding cases that are happening, what can Zimbabwean citizens do in order to approach the Commission?  How do they approach the Commission if they have complaints?

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  I thought that after the Minister’s explanation, people would want to study what the Minister has presented.  I also thought it was exhaustive.  Hon. Minister, may you respond.

*HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI: The Independent Complaints Commissioners are interviewed by Parliament and that has already been done.  They were sworn in by His Excellency.  The Commission does not focus on complaints from defence forces only.  They also cater for grievances from the police.  As a Minister, I do not have any capacity to speak on behalf of this Commission – it is a Commission which was put in place by the Constitution of the country.

*HON. MURERI:  I do not understand clearly what has been said with regards to my supplementary question – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Who is saying he was fast asleep? 

*HON. MURERI:  We should not bully each other in this House, we should do everything in order.

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mureri, I ruled out your supplementary out of order.  May you please take your seat.

*HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO:  I did not get a response.  I need a response because this is Government business.  This is a very important issue and citizens should know our position.  Yes, Parliament did the interviews and Commissioners were appointed.  We are not actually aware when they are commencing work.  The Minister should answer that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

*HON. KARIKOGA: The question which is being asked by Hon. Hlatywayo was responded to clearly.  Let us avoid wasting time repeating the same questions which were responded to.

*HON. C. HLATYWAYO:  On a point of privilege…

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:   There is no such privilege.  Read your Standing Orders and understand them. 

RECRUITMENT OF TEACHERS AND DISTRIBUTION OF BOOKS AND FURNITURE AT CHINYAMUKWAKWA SECONDARY SCHOOL AND OTHER SCHOOLS

50. HON. HLATYWAYO asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to confirm to the House:
51. When teachers will be recruited at Chinyamukwakwa Secondary School, particularly for Mathematics, Science, Building and Geography.
52. What plans are in place to distribute text books and furniture in schools such as Matikwa, Munepasi, Takwirira Primary Schools and Chinyamukwakwa and Katanga Secondary Schools?

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. GATA): The Minister of Primary and Secondary Education is seized with the issue of teacher recruitment to reduce teacher-pupil ratio, which is generally high in the majority of our schools and also to cater for the teacher deficit obtaining in some of our schools. However, the exercise is done in liaison with the Public Service Commission and Treasury.

         The Ministry makes a request of the teachers to be recruited every term. Depending on the availability of financial resources, Treasury and the Public Service Commission allocates a certain quota to be recruited. Focus is usually on areas of acute shortage such as mathematics, science and early childhood development. The shortage of teachers in these areas is obtaining nationwide.

         With regards to Chinyamukwakwa Secondary School, the Science and Mathematics posts rose as a result of attrition that occurred in the course of the year. The district has long since a made a request to have these posts filled. In our next phase of recruitment, Chinyamukwakwa will be considered for Maths and Science learning areas. Geography and Building are new learning areas at the schools and the posts have been recently declared. These are regarded as expansion posts and concurrence with the Public Service Commission and Treasury is being sought to have them filled as well.

1. b) A decentralised school governance system dictates that schools budget for the purchase of furniture, textbooks and other teaching and learning materials from the levies they collect from parents. School Development Committees (SDCs) are therefore encouraged to actively complement Government efforts in that regard. The Ministry has created an enabling environment by way of encouraging schools to charge for a textbook levy or development levy where necessary. The Chinyamukwakwa SDC is therefore allowed to collect such levies so that they cater for the deficit.

         However, when Government has financial resources, it purchases textbooks and distribute them to schools in line with its constitutional mandate. For 2025, the Ministry has budgeted for the purchase of textbooks. Ministry officials at district and provincial offices are in the process of collating textbook needs for 2025 for onward transmission to head office so that schools experiencing textbook shortages are considered.

         *HON. MAKUMIRE: My supplementary question is, what is the reason for teacher shortage in those schools? What plans does the Government have to assist those Science teachers so that they can go and teach in those respective schools because a lot of children are learning arts subjects only, like Shona and Bible Knowledge? It is now difficult to come up with a doctor or engineer from such schools because there is no promotion of science subjects. What is Government doing to support those teachers when they are deployed to those places? I thank you.

*HON. GATA: Thank you so much for the contribution from the Hon Member. The shortage of Science teachers at the school was caused by the death of a Science teacher. The teachers at the school did not run away. The vacancy was created due to attrition. The teachers did not relocate from that place.  So, if you have any other school where Science teachers have left for greener pastures, just write it down and tell me the name of the school so that I can respond accordingly.

MEASURES TO REDUCE STOCK THEFT IN MAKONI NORTH CONSTITUENCY

17. HON. MUWOMBI asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to inform the House the measures that the Ministry has put in place to reduce stock theft in the Makoni North Constituency, Wards 2, 3, 5, 9, 10 and 35 in particular.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Let me thank the Hon Member for the question. I wish to inform the House that statistics from the ZRP indicate that between January and September 2024, stock theft cases in Makoni North Constituency wards were reduced by 35% when compared to the same period in 2023 as follows:

MONTH	JAN	FEB	MAR	APR	MAY	JUN	JUL	AUG	SEP	TOTAL
2023	9	8	5	7	8	9	13	10	11	80
2024	6	6	4	4	3	5	8	7	9	52
TREND	-3	-2	-1	-3	-5	-4	-5	-3	-2	-28
%	-33	-25	-20	-43	-63	-44	-38	-30	-18	-35

 

         Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to inform the House that ZRP is on high alert and has continuously implementing various measures to eradicate stock theft not only in Makonde North Constituency but countrywide. These include foot and motorised night patrols - targeting farming areas, deployment of crack teams for stop and search operations along major highways and feeder roads, awareness campaigns in collaboration with the traditional leadership, church leaders and school conscientising communities to construct their kraals closer to their homesteads, pen their stock daily, conduct regular checks at night and regular stock counting and branding.

Police also strengthened community policing initiative in the form of the Village Anti-stock Theft Committees, Neighbourhood Watch and Community Liaison Committees to assist the police in this regard. Religious enforcement of stock management procedures including stock clearance and issuance of permits in liaison with veterinary services are being done. In addition, surveillance of butcheries and abattoirs is ongoing with Police Officers on patrol checking relevant stock registered.

         Accounting for stock thieves on wanted list, accused on bail and monitoring activities of all CBD holders of stock theft, all these are being done. The district also formulated Anti-stock Theft Crack Team to carry out patrols, stop and searches, day and night blitz and road blocks. Joint operations are also conducted in order to reduce stock theft cases. I wish also to highlight that during the period January to September 2024, stock valued at US$24 600 was stolen and stock worth US$9600 was recovered. A total of nine accused persons were convicted for stock theft cases during the period under review.

         Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the House and the Hon. Member that the Police are seized with delivering their constitutional mandate enshrined in Section 219 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and stand ready to work with all stakeholders in their various policing areas to reduce the prevalence of crime in society. Furthermore, I would like to reiterate that Hon. Members are free to approach Officers Commanding in Districts, Provinces as well as Officers in Charge Police Station within their Constituencies on all policing matters rather than wait for these platforms. I so submit.

CRIME STATISTICS IN CHIPINGE SOUTH AND PLANS TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE

18. HON. C. HLATYWAYO asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to provide the House with crime statistics within Chipinge South area of jurisdiction during the period August 2023-August 2024 and to elaborate on plans by the Ministry to deal with rampant criminal cases in this area.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I wish to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Let me start by asserting that it is common knowledge that police have a constitutional mandate to prevent, investigate and detect crime among other functions. During the period January to August 2023, Chipinge South Constituency recorded 470 criminal cases as compared to 515 cases received during the period January to August 2024. This translates to 9,5% increase. Moreover, during the period of 1^st August ,2022 to 31^st July, 2023 the constituency recorded 918 cases compared to 865 during the period 1^st August, 2023 to 31^st July, 2024 translating to -5.7% decrease. In a bid to mitigate the scourge of crime, the police are pursuing a variety of strategies including:

         Establishment of Neighbourhood Watch Crime which is a Community policing initiative where community members take upon themselves to safeguard their properties from criminals by conducting crime prevention measures within their neighbourhood with guidance from the Police is helpful.

         Similarly, the Police launched Village Anti-Stock Theft Committees in most villages within the Constituency as the area is prone to stock rustling, especially cattle, donkeys and goats. This has also resulted in the recovery of several cattle, goats and pigs as the established communities are conducting activities meant to prevent theft of stock such as night patrols as well as alerting police wherever, there are suspicious activities. Recently, six (6) cattle, twenty (20) goats and one (1) donkey were recovered through activities of the Village Anti-Stock Theft Committees.

         With analysis of crime trends having indicated that some of the stolen stock were being smuggled into Mozambique where there is a ready market, the Police District Command carries out liaison meetings with their Mozambican counterparts. This cooperation has led to the recovery of 42 cattle from Mozambique during the period July to August 2024.

         In an effort to make the Police Service available to everyone in the Constituency and to promote swift Police reaction to calls for service, Police Reporting Centres and Bases have been established at areas including Chinyamukwakwa Business Centre, Rimi, Mabee, Maheye and Checheche Business Centre.

• Community Awareness programmes are being done with a view to educate communities on making their Properties hard for criminals to reach as well as removing to safe places those properties that can easily be targeted.
• In relation to stock theft, programmes to raise community awareness are being done in conjunction with other relevant Government Department with view to educate them on the importance of cattle branding as well as the importance of cattle herding throughput the year.
• In an effort to deter criminals on the prowl, visible policing is being done within the Constituency through foot and motorised patrols at crime hot spots and main business centres in the Constituency. Police visibility is being complimented by members of the Police Constabulary who are always operating under the guidance of regular members of the Police Service.
• In addition, general patrols are being done within the Constituency particularly in areas that are far away from the Police Station, Bases or Reporting Centres. This is meant to ensure police visibility with the Constituency.
• May I also take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker Sir to call upon our citizens to collaborate police efforts through the supply of information on crime? We must also bear in mind that crime is perpetrated against the community, by members who are also part of the same community. I am therefore calling upon everyone to take collective responsibility for creation of a safe and secure environment.

Further, I would like to reiterate that Hon. Members are free to approach Officers Commanding Districts, Provinces as well as Officers in Charge of Police Stations within their Constituencies on all policing matters rather than wait for these platforms. I thank you.

         HON. BONDA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  May I ask the Hon. Minister, does your Ministry has a budget for the whistleblowers who will be providing that information to assist the police to make some arrests?  I thank you.

         HON. SANYATWE: Thank you Hon. Member, we made a request in the just ended budget.  Thank you.

PLANS REGARDING THE PROVISION OF COMPUTERS FOR NORTON REGISTRY

19. HON. TSVANGIRAI asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to inform the House on the Ministry’s plans regarding the provision of equipment such as computers for the Norton Registry office.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking such an important question.  If it pleases the House, allow me Hon. Members to note that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, through the Civil Registry Department, computerised Norton Registry Office during the second quarter.  The office is now issuing computerised birth and death certificates.  The department has also plans to cascade issuance of polythene, synthetic identity documents to Norton Registry Office in 2025.  I so submit.

         The Hon. Minister having mispronounced the word ‘cascade’ as castigate.

         HON. GUMBO: On a point of clarity, is it castigate or cascade?  We need clarity there.

         HON. SANYATWE: Thank you, it is cascade.

STATUS OF STAFF VACANCIES AT PUMULA DISTRICT REGISTRY OFFICES

21. HON. S. MAHLANGU asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to inform the House the status of staff vacancies at Pumula District Registry offices in Bulawayo and to state how Government will resolve the challenges being encountered.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  With your permission, I would like to defer the question to next week.  There are still some consultations that are being done.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAUNGANIDZE): It has been granted.

NATURE OF THE CONTRACT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND LITHUANIAN COMPANY GARSU PASAULIS

22. HON. BAJILA asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House the nature of the contract between Government and a Lithuanian company Garsu Pasaulis including: a) The duration of the contract.  b) Revenue realised by the Government from that contract.  

 

         THE DEPUTY MINSTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member.  Again, I would like to defer the question to next week.  I thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER The question has been deferred.

MEASURES TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE PERSONNEL TO CURB CATTLE RUSTLING BY ZAMBIANS

23. HON. BONDA asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House the measures that the Ministry is putting in place to provide adequate personnel to curb cattle rustling by Zambians in the following areas: Lumbora, Chezya, Sidinda and Matetsi.

         THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. SANYATWE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  Thank you Hon. Member.  Again, I would like to defer the question to next week.  There are still some consultations that we are going through.  I thank you.

        THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The question has been deferred to next week.

     The Temporary Speaker having called Hon. Bajila for Question Number 24.

        HON. BAJILA: Madam Speaker, Question Number 24 has been dealt with in the previous Session of this Parliament.

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

PLANS REGARDING THE PROVISION OF COMPUTERS FOR NORTON REGISTRY

19. HON. TSVANGIRAI asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to inform the House on the Ministry’s Plans Regarding the provision of equipment such as computers for the Norton Registry.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. C. SANYATWE): Mr Speaker Sir, I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking such an important question in this august House. If it pleases the House, allow me Hon. Members to note that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage through the Civil Registry Department computerised Norton registry office during the second quarter. The office is now issuing computerised birth and death certificates. The Department has plans to cascade issuance of polythene-synthetic identity documents to Norton Registry office in 2025.

PAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING ALLOWANCES TO MINISTRY OFFICIALS WHO DID MOBILE REGISTRATION IN MUREWA DISTRICT

20. HON. ZEMURA asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the house why it has taken long to pay outstanding allowances to Ministry officials who were doing mobile registration for primary documents in Murewa District.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. C. SANYATWE): Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank the Hon. Member for asking such an important question in this august House. The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage through the Civil Registry Department conducted a national mobile registration exercise from 01 May to 31 July 2023 in preparation for the Harmonised General Elections. Members of staff who participated in the mobile registration exercise were drawn from all provinces and districts across the country. To date, partial payment of mobile registration allowances were made and the remaining allowances are yet to be paid.

In 2023, Treasury committed to settle the arrears over a period of two months, November and December but the commitment was not honoured. At the beginning of 2024, the Department again engaged Treasury on the matter. Treasury committed to pay USD9, 791,265.00 over a period of three months, starting March to May 2024. Treasury released the budget in July 2024 and Civil Registry Department processed the payments on SAP system and submitted the documentation to Treasury for cash disbursement. To date, Treasury has only disbursed USD 2,948,145.00. The Ministry therefore, awaits cash disbursements from Treasury.

       Oral Answers to Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order Number 68.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

      HON. KARIKOGA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day Number 15 has been disposed of.

      HON. MUROMBEDZI: Madam Speaker, before I second, with regards the questions that have been deferred as having been answered in the previous Sessions, when can we expect the responses in the Hansard to know whether they have been responded to or not because it was ruled by the previous speaker?  The questions were appearing on today’s Order Paper but they were ruled as having been answered.  They were from the Ministry of Agriculture.

      THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is noted Hon. Murombedzi, we will talk to the administration.

      HON. MUROMBEDZI: I second.

      Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

COMPENSATION FOR TEXTBOOK AUTHORS, MUSICIANS AND PENALTIES FOR PIRACY

   Fifteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the surge of cases of piracy.

     Question again proposed.

      HON. DR. MUTODI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to ask this House honourably, to adopt the motion on intellectual property and piracy.  I acknowledge those who debated on this matter and the debate was very sound.  It touched all the various issues of intellectual property, including printed materials and also audio and video content.  The motion was principally asking for the creation of a Compensation Fund which is managed by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education as well as the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development and the Ministry of Sports or Entertainment if there is such Ministry. So, I look forward to responses from the Minister of Higher Education and the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education as well as the Minister of Arts, Sports and Culture to ensure that this House is fully satisfied that the proposed recommendations for the establishment of a compensation fund are going to be taken seriously by the Government and we are going to see such development taking place. So with these few ending words, I would want to ask this House to adopt the motion.

Motion that this House,

 CONCERNED about the surge in cases of piracy where Intellectual Property Rights and Copyrights Acts are violated with impunity by unscrupulous individuals.

NOTICING THAT many academic textbooks approved as set books by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education have been unlawfully photocopied and subsequently sold on the black market.

WORRIED THAT authors of such textbooks have been prejudiced of huge sums of money leaving them poverty stricken and destitute.

 FURTHER WORRIED that publishing houses have also lost huge amounts of money in the form of investment for the printing and publication of such books.

COGNISANT THAT the continued photocopying of textbooks and the unlawful reselling of such books continues to bleed the nation and causes massive brain drain that compromises the quality of education in the country

NOW, THEREFORE, resolves that:

1. a) A compensation fund be established to restitute authors of text books and musicians who have incurred losses of their intellectual property through piracy for the period 2000 to 2024; and
2. b) The Compensation Fund be administered by the Ministries of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development; Primary and Secondary Education; Sports, Recreation, Arts and Culture; and Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
3. c) Stiff penalties be imposed on culprits engaging in piracy and the violation of the Copy Rights Act, put and agreed to.

HON. HAMAUSWA: Point of Order Madam Speaker Ma’am.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAWUNGANIDZE): What is your point of Order Hon. Hamauswa?

HON. HAMAUSWA: I appreciate that as the House, we have adopted the motion. However, I wanted your indulgence regarding the response from the responsible Minister. Is it also not good that we have the response because there were some recommendations, especially the establishment of the compensation fund as articulated by the motion? I do not know how, as the House, we can hear the responses from the Minister so that we do not end up having piles and piles of motions that will not be actioned by the respective Ministers. Thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER : I have taken note of that we will tell the relevant Minister.

HON. S. TSHUMA: Point of privilege.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER : What is your point of privilege Hon. Tshuma.

*HON. S. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam President, my point of privilege is that Madam Speaker, whenever this House adjourns and whenever we will be ready to adjourn, people are just rushing to go and register their names. The issue of registering twice is not coming out well with us as we come out of this House. We have other people who sometimes go without registering simply because it means we are going to miss something else to wait for 20 minutes to register again, kindly attend to that Madam Speaker. Thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon Tshuma what you spoke is out of business for what we are doing right now but I have taken note of that. Thank you

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 HON. KARIKOGA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 16 to 20 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 21 has been disposed of.

HON. MUROMBEDZI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

APPROVAL FOR RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND THE OPEC FUND FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (OFID) FOR THE HORTICULTURAL ENTERPRISE ENHANCEMENT PROJECT (HEEP)

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. D. K. MNANGAGWA): I rise to give a motivational motion on the horticultural enterprise enhancement projects HEEP Loan agreement which was signed between the Governments of the Republic of Zimbabwe and The OPEC Fund for International Development (OFID). According to Zimbabwe’s Economic Development Economic blueprint the National Development Strategy 1, 2021 to 2025 Government prioritises the recovery of the agricultural sector which is a key enabler to the country’s economic growth. The Horticulture Enterprise Enhancement Project HEEP increases agriculture production productivity especially by horticultural farmers which enhances food and nutrition security income, increased opportunities for value addition and the development of agri-business value chains. To this end, Government secured – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Minister. Hon. Members, we are still in Parliament, let us focus on the business of the day. All Hon. Members who are standing, can you please go back and take your seats and let us focus and listen whilst the Minister is presenting. I thank you very much. Hon. Minister you may proceed?

HON. D. K. MNANGAGWA: To this end, the Government secured USD37 114 000 from OFID to enhance horticulture production and productivity which was approved by Parliament in May 2024. The project is being co-financed by the OPEC fund international development for a loan of USD15 million. The objective of HEEP is to support increased and sustainable horticultural production and sales by smallholder farmers, and micro-small and medium enterprises, engaged in horticulture value chains. The project shall benefit all small holder farmers who will be organised in Agriculture Producer Groups (APGs) and Village Horticulture Gardens (VHGs) and Agriculture Producer Groups and 4Ps linked to anchor firms.  The project will be located in four provinces Matabeleland South, Masvingo, Midlands and Manicaland for the VHGs and for the 4Ps. The project will be located and well-functioning irrigation schemes throughout the ten provinces of the country, in particular the high potential regions of Mashonaland and Manicaland Provinces. The objective of the project is to realise increased household incomes and improved nutrition.  Through sustainable transformation of the smallholder farming sector, the revival of the horticultural sector is key in boosting the national economy through transforming the smallholder sector to participate in enhanced horticulture production and productivity, development of local and regional markets, employment creation, expansion of horticulture exports and imports substitution and reduction in poverty. 

The project aims to increase incomes, food security and empowerment for smallholder farmers engaged in profitable and sustainable horticulture value chains benefiting poor smallholder farmers who will be organised in APGs and VHGs and agriculture producer groups and 4Ps linked to anchor firms. OFID in 2021 also financed another project similar to another project the Smallholder Agriculture Cluster Project SACP, which was implemented in five provinces and these are Mashonaland Central, Mashonaland East, Mashonaland West, Midlands and Matabeleland North.  SACP aimed at increasing household incomes and improved nutrition through our sustainable transformation of the smallholder farming sector.  The project’s development objective is to increase equitable small holder participation and market oriented and climate smart value chains while the HEEP is more focused on smallholder who are into horticultural farming and is being implemented in Matabeleland South, Masvingo, Midlands and Manicaland.

Now on the project financing and loan repayment; to support the programme, Government negotiated and signed USD15 million loan with OPEC development fund for international development on the 17^th of October 2023 for the Horticulture Enterprise Enhancement Project. The loan will be utilised to support the increased and sustainable horticultural production and sales by smallholder farmers and micro, small and medium enterprises engaged in horticulture value chains.  The (OFID) loan has the following terms and conditions:  The loan amount is USD15 million.  The purpose of the loan is to finance, increased  sustainable horticultural production and sales by smallholder farmers and micro, small and medium enterprises engaged in horticulture value chains and will be located in four provinces, Matabeleland South, Masvingo, Midlands and Manicaland for the Village Horticulture Gardens and for the 4Ps.  The project will be located in well-functioning irrigation schemes throughout the ten provinces of the country, in particular the high potential regions of Mashonaland and Manicaland Provinces. The project will support the following components:

1. VHGs and 4P mobilisation and development.
2. Access to finance
3. Institutional support and project coordination. The conditions precedent loan ratification by Parliament: The interest of the loan is 1% per annum and amounts withdrawn and outstanding with a commitment fee of 0.5%. The tenure is 20 years. A grace period of five years.

Repayment modalities; Repayment of principal and interest shall be made from the National Budget.

Now, the expected benefits of the project; Agriculture being one of the economic pillars for Zimbabwe and the support for smallholder farming will go a long way in achieving the thrust of the National Development Strategy 1 (NDS1) for food security. The implementation of the project will result in the following benefits:

Employment creation for the local communities, capacity building for the local communities, climate smart agriculture and easy market access, improved food nutrition and security, increased household incomes, improved resilience to climate change effects and economic shocks and increased production and productivity.

Madam Speaker, I bring this motivation before this House for approval. I submit.

         HON. P. SAKUPWANYA:  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Firstly, I would like to commend the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion for being able to push forward the funding of such nature, which is direly needed to boost our agricultural activity. I would like to highlight Madam Speaker, that this coincides with the President's mantra that no one and no place should be left behind, especially considering the effects of climate change that has hit Zimbabwe.

I have to give credit through the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement that they managed to institute the village business units, which is in tandem with the conditions under which we took this loan facility.  The establishment and the working of these village business units gives us confidence that the money which was sought after will be put to good use. Just last week, the President was at Magamba Vocational Training Centre where he had a youth empowerment drive or forum where he met with those at Magamba facility where they had a vocational village business unit on display.  It was also noted there that the horticulture that was produced, in this case, fine beans were actually being exported and it was using drip irrigation.  So, that in itself, builds a lot of confidence that with more financing, we can establish such models that are successful because we have seen it with our own eyes.

Madam Speaker, I want to note that the conditions as well that we are receiving this loan facility under are actually very favourable to Zimbabwe. It must be noted that historically Zimbabwe, because of sanctions, has had difficulties in accessing finance and these also stem from the fact that we had an odious debt that we inherited from the colonial regime of Ian Smith that the western colonial powers decided not to retract.  As a result, I want to commend the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion for the work they did in ensuring that we got a 1% interest-rated loan that has a grace period of five years. I think this is highly commendable and it is something we must take advantage of.

I must also highlight Madam Speaker that 20 years, as much as it seems like a long time, is not a very long time.  I request therefore, that when the Ministry and I anticipate that they will receive these funds and will be approved, that when they do receive these amounts, it is important to note that it is our responsibility to ensure that the amounts are used in such a manner that the loan will be repaid in 20 years’ time because Madam Speaker, we do not want to burden our future generations with debt.

 I believe even in 20 years, some of us in this House who are of a favourable age will be there present and we do not want to be seen standing in 20 years’ time looking at each other because we failed to pay under such favourable conditions. So, Madam Speaker, I want to again throw my weight in support of the sterling efforts by the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion and say that this is a good initiative.  They managed to do their work properly by ensuring that we have funding that will help those in the rural areas, that will help our people who have the difficulties of climate change and ensuring that we will be able to grow our own crops and feed our own people. As the President always aptly says, nyika inovakwa nevene vayo, I humbly submit Madam Speaker.

HON. MUKOMBERI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I rise to support the adoption of the loan agreement between Zimbabwe and OPEC Funds for International Development which is directed to supporting horticulture enterprise enhancement projects.

There is something very important in enterprise enhancement, which means this loan is not only targeting to support horticultural production for own consumption but for enterprise reasons. It means we are targeting both production and value addition to the raw produce that is being produced by those farmers.  So, the 15 million loan arrangement to support horticultural production itself by smallholder farmers and small to medium enterprises engaged in horticultural value chain is worth undertaking.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, the thrust of my debate is on the conditions of the loan arrangement.  The first point to note is that the target of the loan arrangement is targeting that industry which is key to Zimbabwe's economic development and the support is actually in line with the macro-economic framework that we have in terms of the National Strategy Development (NDS) goals that we have towards achieving Vision 2030 of food security is very important. It supports economic development in the sense that it improves the standards of living of those communities which are considered poor and vulnerable.

It means that supporting such communities will unburden the national treasury in terms of supporting the vulnerable communities in food supply through the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. That is, if the communities now can self-sustain through their own agricultural production, it means as a country at large, we are going to save a lot in terms of the allocation towards supporting the communities with the food.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, I also want to support this arrangement by saying that the level of interest rate versus the macro-economic net gains derived from such a loan, the level of interest rate which is of 1% versus the possible return on this investment Madam Speaker, I think this loan is worth undertaking. Why? We are saying investment always and everywhere is financed through various sources of finance and loan sources of finance being one of such. So even if it increases the domestic debt, it increases the national debt. I want to say the reason why we are taking this loan is not only for consumption or for recurring expenditure.  It is for supporting investment that will also increase GDP. The increase in GDP, as we march towards achieving an upper-middle income economy by 2030, means that we are increasing as a country, our revenue generation capacity as what we raise as revenue is based on our GDP as a country, which means if empirically it has been proven that 18% of our GDP can be collected as revenue, it means the increase in GDP through this investment will mean that in the future, we are going to have a large capital base, a large revenue base Madam Speaker.

I also want to say, if this investment is made and we have five years grace period, it means that in five years, we will not be paying anything towards the repayment of the loan. It means we have ample time towards Vision 2030. We will start the first instalment after we have already achieved an upper-middle-income status, which means our repayment capacity has actually improved already because we have used money from outside sources but for the generation of income locally. By the time we start repayment, we have already achieved an upper-middle-income status.

Madam Speaker, I also want to say the tenure of the loan of 20 years is so favourable. Why am I saying that? Madam Speaker, it must be known that there is always everywhere an inverse proportionality between the tenure of a loan and the quantum of instalments. What does that imply? It means that with the length of time for recouping this loan, we are also going to be facing a lower instalment as we will be repaying.

What does that imply to our economy? It means that this will give room to the Treasury to fund both the loan repayment as this is funded from the national budget. Treasury will be able to fund loan repayment as well as funding for our domestic expenditure as the loan repayment will be a lower amount per instalment relative to the length of time for repayment.

 Madam Speaker, I want to bring your attention to the fact that the reason for the thrust for this loan is spelt out to say it targets employment creation for the local communities. In Zimbabwe, we are faced with a situation where there is high unemployment. So, an arrangement that is targeted at reducing the unemployment rate is actually an arrangement that is worth undertaking.

Also, we are saying it actually targets to increase production and productivity. In what sense? Productivity is measured in terms of the output per unit input given the land we have in the provinces mentioned. If we base on natural rains for agriculture, it means our productivity will be very low. A piece of land will be generating less, but if we concentrate on horticultural production through drilling boreholes and supporting these arrangements in the communities, it means the output per unit input of land, per unit input of whatever factor of production taken into production, will be high because we will be supporting intensive production rather than extensive one.

So, having said this, Madam Speaker, I want to say the loan arrangement is worth undertaking.  I support the adoption and approval of this arrangement. I want to thank you.

HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I would also like to add my voice to the motion brought before this House by the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Production on a loan to the tune of USD15 million which will go towards horticulture.

Madam Speaker, agriculture is one of our economic pillars in Zimbabwe and the support for horticulture is most welcome. If we look back to yesteryear, Zimbabwe used to grow a lot of horticultural produce, vegetables, you name it. If you go to the UK, for instance, you find that stores like Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury Park, vegetables which were being sold in those shops were coming from Zimbabwe.

People love Zimbabwean horticultural products because they are organic, they are not GMO. So, I would like to applaud the Minister for coming up with this loan but I would like to say to the Minister, that this loan must be used, yes, to support our farmers but at the same time, we must look for markets so that we can sell these vegetables. We can look for markets in India, there are so many people there, in China, in Indonesia, in Dubai, in Russia, all these people would like our produce because they are organic, they are not GMOs.

So, Hon. Minister, if you can look for markets because once you look for markets, we are guaranteed that this USD15 million which is going to be given to horticultural farmers is not going to go to waste because as we speak right now, so many people are growing vegetables, potatoes, tomatoes, cabbages, spinach, you name it but our markets are over-flooded with those products because they end up rotting. If you go to Mbare, so many tomatoes are rotting, cabbages are rotting, go to wherever you want to go, all these products are rotting.

We do not want our products to rot, we want them to be sold to other countries so that this country gets the much-needed foreign currency that we are looking for. Yesteryear, agriculture used to generate 40% of the foreign currency in this country and it can also do that as we speak right now. Our agricultural sector used to employ more than 60% of people who are employed.

It used to produce more than 40% of the products which are used by the manufacturing sector. If this money was to be put to good use, this is exactly what is going to happen. The horticultural people will be supplying those who are manufacturing so that they start manufacturing tomato juice, tomato puree, tomato sauce, you name it.

Some of these products must be processed so that we start selling processed products instead of selling our products in raw form. So, I would like to applaud the Minister for this loan and we support you so that this loan is given to Zimbabwe. We want our farmers to start farming but at the same time, one of our Members spoke about drip irrigation. With drip irrigation, Honourable Minister, the yield is going to be very high. If this money could also be used for drip irrigation, this will make sure that the products that we grow are very good, they are very organic and they will be loved by many people. So, Hon. Minister, I applaud you. We want this loan to be brought to Zimbabwe but we want it to be put to good use so that our country benefits.

We need foreign currency; we need job creation and we need food again because we also want nutritious food. So many people are dying from cancer because of processed foods that they are eating.  We want our people to start eating traditional foods more than processed foods. I rest my case.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker for the opportunity. Madam Speaker, as much as I want to see Zimbabwe prosper, as much as I want to see Zimbabwe getting loans to support our vulnerable groups of society, it is important, as a Parliamentarian, that I am mandated by Section 299 of the Constitution to ensure that I oversee State revenue and State expenditure to see if all revenue is properly accounted for, to see if all expenditure is properly incurred.  Lastly, Madam Speaker and most importantly, to see if the limits are adhered to.

 Madam Speaker, Section 12 of the Public Debt Management Act provides for limits in terms of borrowing.  It is important to adhere to the law as Parliament. Why am I saying this Madam Speaker? If you go to paragraph number 97 of the 2024 Budget Statement, as given by the Minister of Finance, it reads, and I quote, ‘the total public debt and publicly guaranteed debt stock, as at end of September 2023, amounted to 96.71 trillion, which is 81.3% of the GDP of this country as at September 2023.  If you look at the trend of expenditure Madam Speaker, our actual debt increased from September 2023 to date.  My issue is, if debt was increased by three billion, what it means if the Minister said it is 81.3% of GDP by September 2023, our GDP was around 22 billion if we do mathematics.  This is the document from the Ministry of Finance itself.  It is not my own creation.  We are a year later now and we are told that our GDP ratio is now 58%.  To me, it defies logic and actually an indictment…

         HON. DHLIWAYO:  Point of order.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order Hon. Dhliwayo?

         HON. DHLIWAYO:  I think the Hon. Member must not lie to this House.  I think the Minister of Finance made it clear that our GDP is above 35 billion.  The calculations that he is trying to do there, I do not think they are the ones that are credible.  Let him refer to the information provided by the Minister of Finance, not his own calculations.  Thank you.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  It is not parliamentary to say another Hon. Member is lying.  You should use another diction - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  Hon. Madzivanyika, can you talk with facts.

         HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  Madam Speaker, I am holding the 2024 National Budget Statement.  I refer to paragraph 97 which talks about public debt.  There is a mention of 81.3% of our GDP.  So, if 81% was USD18 billion, what is 100% which is our GDP?  Normal mathematics tells me that the GDP was 22 billion.  This is by the record of the Ministry itself.  It is not my own creation and it is there. 

My worry is, since 2023, debt has increased trajectory.  Are you telling me Madam Speaker that the GDP has ballooned only in 2024 by more than USD15 billion?  The answer is no because we are suffering from El Nino.  We are saying the GDP contracts more than what we have budgeted for. 

         So, Madam Speaker, the integrity of the GDP figure is very important.  As it stands, if I add about 10% gross rate, I want to give you 5% for 2024.  Our debt position in terms of the law will remain in distress.  It will remain illegal for Parliament to approve this borrowing.  Therefore, a parliamentarian must follow the law, that is why we are here.  As much as we want to do good for our people, let us stick to the dictates of the law. We are not allowed to borrow beyond 70% of what we produce.

 I want to assure you Madam Speaker that this loan is important. At this stage, we are at a point where our debt position is beyond the stipulated region. I wanted some methods and I do not want to hear new figures that are inconsistent with the position given by the Minister himself. Thank you Madam Speaker.

         HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I rise to add my voice on the motion that has been brought before the House by the Hon. Minister on the ratification of the loan agreement between the Government of Zimbabwe and the OPEC Fund for International Development and mainly to support horticulture enterprise focusing especially on rural areas.

         My line of argument is going to follow the development thrust that we have as a country. If there is any loan agreement, what are the positives that are going to come to Zimbabwe? We look at the National Development Strategy 1 (NDS1) Vision 2030, the agendas that we have domesticated as a country, Agenda 2063 of African Union, SDG 2030 and our NDS1. If you look at the NDS1, out of the fourteen priority areas, there is one priority that is looking at food and nutrition security.

If you check at the provisions of the loan agreement, we are looking at the promotion of horticulture primarily in the rural areas, looking at what are called the agricultural producer groups and the village horticulture gardens. These are the areas that are vulnerable and are in the rural areas.  As Parliament, we have been discussing with the Executive why there is no activity happening in our dams.  We have a lot of dams and I think that this loan agreement is providing the answer to the question that we have been asking and this is a positive for us as a country. 

Then in terms of what is going to happen, we have said as a country that we now have got a policy on rural industrialisation and we will need inputs that are supposed to feed into the industrialisation agenda in the rural areas.  These are the inputs that are coming from the dams, gardens and activities that are going to happen in the rural areas.  In the process, we are going to create jobs and as part of the NDS1, we have got a priority area on the development of value chains and if you look at the output that is going to come from these horticulture gardens given the policy thrust now that is under ARDA of aggregating outputs that are coming from small farmers, this is going to provide a throughput into the hubs like the one that we have in Mutoko.  This again is going to create jobs and promote value chains in the horticulture space. 

         We have also looked at the issue that has been discussed here, the issue of fiscal space.  The issue of Zimbabwe with regards to the fiscal leg room that we have is not a normal situation.  I know there is a lot of debate whether sanctions are there or not there but I think for the reasonable person, we know that as a country we are under sanctions.  Because of that, it then limits our fiscal space.  We talked about the debt sustainability but it happens when dealing with a normal situation but ours is not a normal situation.  As a country, we do not have access to balance of payments support and any agreement that comes with concessions is acceptable.  So, this is providing us as Zimbabwe with the fiscal space that we need to move the agenda that we have as a country, the agenda that is embedded in Vision 2030 that we are implementing through NDS1 and our budget.  If you look at our 2025 Budget, the theme is Building Resilience for Sustained Economic Transformation.  You look at the provisions of the loan, it is talking about us not relying on rain fed horticulture agriculture.  So, we are saying that if we are going to make use of our dams, this is again going to put that element of resilience and it bodes well with our agenda for our 2025 National Budget.

         The other issue is that of equality.  Income poverty is high in rural areas.  The focus of the project is the rural areas and once this project is going to be progressively forcefully implemented, this is going to reduce income poverty.  In the process we have talked about reducing the gap between the rich and the poor.  Again, this is feeding well into Vision 2030. 

I may want to go to the point that has been discussed by other Hon. Members and this is the issue of debt sustainability.  It is very critical that in as much as we support this, we look at debt sustainability.  Our GDP according to the macro-economic framework is ZiG576 billion.  We just need to look at the macro-economic framework.  Then the current exchange rate is 25.86 so if you divide into that number you will get a nominal GDP in US dollars of around 22 billion.  So, if you get 22 billion and then you divide by our debt which is around 21.3 billion, you will get a debt to GDP ratio of close to 100%.  It is true that it is going against the provisions of the Constitution of us having a GDP level which is less than 70% but as I have already alluded to, the situation that we have as a country is not a normal situation.  Once we have managed to get a loan with concessional rates of 1% and then the 0.5% which is the cost, this is something which is acceptable to us.

As a country on sanctions, we have gone for loans with interest rates of 6% to 7%, which is not sustainable and I think that because of the tenure of 20 years at a rate of 1%, I personally support the ratification of the loan agreement between the Government of Zimbabwe and the OPEC Fund.  I fully support that as Parliament we support the agreement because the benefits that come clearly outweigh the costs.  So, I fully support that we support the loan agreement between the government of Zimbabwe and the OPEC Fund for International Development which is OFID.  I so submit.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. D. MNANGAGWA):  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I would also want to thank the Hon. Members’ submissions.  I think before I take a dive into the submissions that came from the Hon. Members, let me address an issue that came from Hon. Madzivanyika and was somewhat echoed by Hon. Chiduwa so that we do not confuse the House on certain issues.  It is important that as law makers, we do not ratify an agreement based on illegality or contravention of the law.  If we read the Public Debt Management Act, it says that we are not supposed to reach 70% debt to GDP.  This is something I will address a bit after my submission.  I think the two Hon. Members are using US dollar debt figures and ZiG GDP figures.  Hon. Madzivanyika used ZWD old figures for the GDP which again has been overtaken by events and inflation so it gives a very wrong depiction of what our debt to GDP ratio is.  It is a fact that our debt is 21billion or 22 billion, these numbers will be coming during the budget and our GDP is estimated to be 34 billion or 35 billion. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - These are not my figures but the figures come from the IMF and World Bank.  Figures which even surprise others because they would want them to be much lower but they cannot because you cannot fix the numbers or mess with the numbers.

  In that respect Madam Speaker, our debt to GDP ratio is way below the 70%.  We are in the region of 60%, which means that we are not breaching any laws by ratifying this agreement.  Further to that, in principle, this is maybe something that as a House we need to discuss this issue of 70%.  When you look at countries like China, they have a debt to GDP ratio of 286%, the United States is in excess of 120%.  We need to contextually see what is right for Zimbabwe and what will entice our growth as a country.  While it is a measure of debt sustainability, we should not get stuck as a nation in a skewed global financial architecture that uses matrix that will keep us suppressed and not to grow.  This is something that we have been trying as a Ministry and financial management team to ensure that we come up with the right matrix for growth.  I am getting confirmation that the IMF figures are 34.41 billion for our GDP figures.  Maybe the Hon. Member can go and argue with the IMF but let us compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.  Now that we have a basis for the ratification of this agreement that is not in contravention of the law because it is important that the basis be known. 

We can now go into the various submissions that came from the Hon. Members.  I will start with Hon. Sakupwanya who gave the length and breadth of where this project is going to reach, leaving no place and no one behind.  This was in support of the submission and we are already seeing tangibles through the village business units.  It is something that as Government and the people, one is able to put eyes to actuality as to what this fund can do because Government has already set an example of a success template.  Now, the favourable conditions for the loan will allow time for the economic growth aspect to come in despite this being a loan to support vulnerable groups.  We want to make our households more economically stable in terms of food security.  That in itself is part of our GDP, which is our production.  What do people produce?  The moment we get each and every household producing something, this is how an economy grows.  So, we want to make sure that at individual household level we are productive.  This is how we will get to an upper middle-income society that is not just by metric of GNI per capita but actually leaving no place and no one behind.  These are part of the initiatives that will make sure that when we talk about GDP, the last person in the rural area can actually say that they are contributing because they are producing.  This is what it means to have everyone involved in an economy.

 Hon. Mukomberi also gave support to the loan and gave a true depiction of what this facility is.  It is not one for consumption.  We are not borrowing money to buy tomatoes so that we can feed our people but we are borrowing money so that we can get irrigation equipment, we can drill boreholes and give them the right seeds so they become productive.  This is in no way consumptive but more sustainable and will allow us as a nation and an economy to grow and be able to pay this back.  So, we should start seeing the dividends within a few seasons as the implementation comes in. Hon. Khupe also came in largely supporting this facility. She looked at yesteryear when Zimbabwe used to be admired for its horticultural development. At our peak, in 1999 before the land reform, we used to reach exports of 140 million. What I can say is that, under the Second Republic in 2024, we have reached exports of close to 120 million. As we close 2024, our target is to reach 143 million, which means that the land reform, the programmes that we are going through are giving credence to the measures that were put in place.

You will find that the same is prevailing in our wheat farming and in tobacco. We are breaching records from yesteryear, which goes to show that Government policies and Government interventions are indeed yielding fruits. This may be to the dismay of naysayers. Hon. Khupe also raises the need to look for markets and again, this is also addressed in part of the HEEP, which is the framework that sets the basis for the agreement.

There are three components which I mentioned in my presentation. One of them provides for institutional support and that there will be hiring of a market’s linkage advisor for these products.  It is not just a matter of producing horticultural goods that are going to rot. There will be an ecosystem to make sure that these goods reach their markets. 

I would also like to thank Hon. Chiduwa for giving the benefits to the nation, to the people and to the fiscus as well as that ratification of this loan agreement so that we can start drawing down and bring it to our smallholder farmers. With these few submissions Madam Speaker, I would like to submit and move that my motion for the ratification of the loan agreement between the OPEC Fund for International Agreement and the Republic of Zimbabwe be hereby ratified and adopted. I so submit.

Motion put and agreed to.

On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. D. K. MNANGAGWA), the House adjourned at Eleven Minutes past Six o’clock p. m.