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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 19 SEPTEMBER 2024 VOL 50 NO 85

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 19^th September, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE ACTING SPEAKER

CHANGES TO PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MACHINGURA):  I wish to inform the House that the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has re-designated and constituted the Portfolio Committees on Environment, Climate and Wild Life and Tourism and Hospitality. Accordingly, the following Chairperson and Hon. Members were appointed to serve on the same Committees.

 Portfolio Committee on Environment, Climate and Wildlife;

Hon. S. Matema to be the Chairperson.  The Members are as follows;

Hon. I. Benza, Hon. W. Chikombo, Hon. C. Chinanzvavana, Hon. A. Dhanzi, Hon. L. Dhliwayo, Hon. C. Kambuzuma, Hon. T. Kanupula, Hon. M. Makope, Hon. S. Matsunga, Hon. A. Mavunga, Hon. B. Moyo, Hon. A. Nyakuedzwa, Hon. B. Nyandoro, Hon. Tafanana Zhou, Hon. Tsitsi Zhou and Hon. R. Ziki.

         Portfolio Committee on Tourism and Hospitality - Hon. J. Mamombe to be Chairperson.  The membership consists of the following Honourable Members;

Hon. J. Chokururama, Hon. S. Hamauswa, Hon. T. Karikoga, Hon. N. Madzara, Hon. A. Mavunga, Hon. C. Moyo, Hon. M. Mugomo, Hon. M. Murombedzi, Hon. N. Ndlovu, Hon. S. Ngwenya, Hon. V. Nhari, Hon. D. Nkala, Hon. E. Shongedza, Hon. J. Sithole, Hon. S. Tshuma and Hon. L. Zemura.

         HON. KAMBUZUMA: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until Orders of the Day Numbers 2 and 3 on today’s Order Paper have been disposed of.

 MOTION

 

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NUMBER 33 (6), 53 (1), 66 (2) AND 147

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to move a motion that provisions of Standing Orders No. 33 (6), 53 (1), 66 (2) and 147 regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, the Automatic Adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. on sitting days other than a Friday and at Twenty-Five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday.  Private Members' motions taking precedence on Wednesdays after Question Time and Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended with effect from today and for the next series of sittings regarding Government Business.  I thank you.

         HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the request by the Hon. Minister on behalf of the Executive, ordinarily Mr. Speaker Sir, you will understand and appreciate that as a standard, this House has always voted to suspend these Orders but only when we look at the urgent Government Business like when we want to deal with the Budget, the Appropriation Bill and the Finance Bill so that we can dispose of it as soon as possible.    The Hon. Minister’s request seeks to ensure that we are suspending all these Orders primarily to make sure that Government Business and Government Bills take precedence.

  I just wanted to state that when the President opened this session of Parliament last year, we were told that there would be more than 30 Bills that were going to emanate from the Executive.  As we speak today, Mr. Speaker Sir, with a few weeks towards the end of this session, this Government has only passed one Bill into law and that is one out of 50, which generally is regarded as a failure in any standard of measurement.

         So, Mr. Speaker Sir, whilst we may not necessarily want to continue to make this Government perform badly, we will support the motion but we must seek the Minister to clarify to then say when he speaks of Government Business, could we then understand, is it the business that we already have on the Order paper in respect of the Bills so that we do not have other new Bills that will just come later on?  If it concerns the Bills that are already on the Order Paper, we will not have a problem.  We will just allow them so that at least they can seem to have done something in this Session, otherwise the statistics that are there in the history of Zimbabwe, this is the worst-performing Government in a particular session.  I thank you.

         THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, I think you have used some derogatory statements there.  Yes, when you are supporting the Minister, you support him and you indicate what you wish done like you have said that the Bills that are already there should be run through.  However, when you start saying this is the worst performing Government – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order! Hon. Members, you are not chairing.  I am responding to Hon. Mushoriwa and I think he is prepared for what I am saying when you are not. 

         So, that is what I think.  You should craft it in a manner that it does not seem we are derogating the Minister.  He has simply questioned for the suspension of the Orders, if you support it, you simply support and if you want to say something in addition to him that aids the performance and efficiency of the House, that is fine.  The way you have put it, I may ask you to just withdraw those parts – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

         HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for your guidance.  Mr. Speaker, the very reason why the Hon. Minister seeks to suspend the Orders of the House is primarily to do with the fact that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

         THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, I asked you just to withdraw those parts that are derogatory in your response to the Minister.

         HON. MUSHORIWA: Given your guidance, I want to withdraw the statement that this Government has passed one Bill out of the 50 prompted by the Executive – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

         THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon Minister, the Hon. Member has asked a question to say are you suspending business in preference to Government Business just for this Bill or for the other Bills that are on the Order Paper?

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): This pertains to the Bills that are already under consideration, that is all.  This is just to make sure that we try to clear matters that contribute to the Government’s efficient functioning such as financial issues.

Motion put and agreed to.

SECOND READING

PARKS AND WILDLIFE AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 1. 2024]

         THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. S. G. NYONI):  I hereby present my second reading speech on the Parks and Wildlife Amendment Bill.

         Mr. Speaker Sir, it is a great honour to rise and present to you the Second Reading speech of the Parks and Wild life Amendment Bill.  The Bill is crucial as it seeks to amend the Parks and Wildlife Act, 2014 to repeal the Trapping of Animals Control Act, [Chapter 20: 21] and to repeal the Quelea Control Act, [Chapter 19: 10]. The objective being to buttress Zimbabwe’s conservation law. 

Mr. Speaker Sir, Clause 2 introduces new definitions and amendments to existing definitions in the principal Act. Of particular note, are the new definitions of ‘appropriate authority’ and ‘delegated appropriate authority’.  Under this Bill, all rural district councils are appropriate authorities subject to the Minister’s power to withdraw that status temporarily for certain purposes.  This is aimed at empowering communities to have a say in the management of wildlife as they are the ones who bear the brunt of human-wildlife conflict.

         Clause 3 inserts two new sections in the Act.  The first new section sets forth the general principles according to which this Act will be administered by the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority.  Of particular note, is the principle that enjoins the authority to devolve as much as possible the responsibility of wildlife conservation and management to local communities adjacent to areas of wildlife.

The second new section clarifies and reforms the common law of the issues of ownership of wildlife.  The new section generally restates the common law positions that wild animals are ownerless.  However, special protected animals are vested in the President and private persons may obtain ownership of wild animals in certain circumstances.

         We are also amending the section on the functions of the authority by adding new functions, particularly noteworthy is the promotion of community participation in consumptive and non-consumptive wildlife based communal activities.

         Clause 5 of the Bill replaces the section on the establishment and composition of the Authorities Board by ensuring fair gender and a regional representation on the board consistently with the Constitution. Provision is also made for the representation of traditional leadership on the board. This is meant to buttress community participation in the management of wildlife.

         The Bill also seeks to add two new parts. The first part establishes the Wildlife Professionals Council of Zimbabwe. At present, there is no qualification certifying all the disciplinary board for wildlife professionals. This part will establish such a board that is fairly representative for professional interests of wildlife sector. The council must formulate binding codes and ethics in every sector and the subsector of professional wildlife industry. The council will be funded in the main by fees for professional certification.

         The second part establishes Human-Wildlife Conflict Relief Fund. The objective of the fund is to offer some monetary relief to victims of human-wildlife conflict. That is to say innocent victims of any encounter with wildlife resulting in the death of a victim of his or her maiming, that is to say, any permanent disability of the bodily function or any other physical injury of the victim.

         Clause 10 provides for lease of areas in the park’s estates. Currently, the law limits leasing to safari areas only. The clause expands the areas to include national parks, recreational parks, botanical gardens and sanctuaries.

         Clause 11 inserts a new section criminally penalising the hunting in and removal of animals and animal products from recreational parks and sale of animals or animal products.

The amendment Bill also seeks to formalise the existing system of allocation of quarters for hunting of animals and for other conceptive profitable and management activities by laying out criteria for the setting of the quotas.  Every quota is scientifically determined to ensure that the animals in question are not consumed beyond a sustainable level.  A civil penalty is provided for quota holders who exceed their quota.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, in addition to this, we are introducing a new section in the Act, providing for the private donation of animals outside of Zimbabwe.  Clause 18 seeks to address the problem that the authority is frequently facing, of licenced hunters, illegally killing animals under guise of an innocent error on their part when on further investigation, an authority finds that the hunters have abused their lawful privilege.  This clause introduces an expeditious and administrative fair way of dealing with such cases.  We are also inserting provisions for the containment of problem animals.  In some cases, it has been found that the declaration of an animal as a problem animal has afforded unlawful licence for some people to destroy such animals without provocation.  The new provision therefore sets out the criteria to be used for an animal to be classified as a problem animal not based on the species, but the individual behaviour of that particular animal. Responsibility for containment of such problem animals tests for appropriate authorities or delegated appropriate authority.

         Mr. Speaker Sir, Clause 32 incorporates the trapping of Animals Act into the Parks and Wildlife Act for ease of administration.  The trapping of animals enables the authority to contain problem animals.  Clause 36 introduces ex-rangers, their appointment and powers among other issues.  The clause also reintroduces honorary park rangers who are individually conferred with powers to assist in the park estate and prescribes their powers.  It also provides for the limitation of liability of the authority.  In the scope and course of its work, the authority often confiscate property used in the commission of illegal wildlife harvest.

         Clause 40 provides a mechanism for the authority to retain confiscated property such as ammunition, votes among others for use in its law enforcement activities. 

Clause 41 provides for the conferment of appropriate authority status on RDCs and community arrangements.  It caters for community participation through CAMPIRE or other community structures.

         Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill also makes it mandatory to consult the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Minister responsible for the Parks and Wildlife, in relation to mining activities to be conducted in national parks by your botanical gardens and botanical reserves. 

Zimbabwe is signatory to various regional and international instruments. Clause 50 provides for demonstration of such instruments and acknowledges the country’s various commitments. 

Clause 55 of the Bill also incorporates the roads communities into the main Parks Board Committees to improve administrative efficiency.

         Clause 56 provides for the co-operation of the designated water bodies such as Tugwi-Mukosi, Darwendale, Osborne and into the fifth schedule.  In light of these provisions, I urge the Hon. Members to support the Bill which is crucial in ensuring that as a country, we optimise benefits to be realised from wildlife. 

         Mr. Speaker Sir, I hereby move that the debate do now adjourn.

         Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24^th September, 2024.

MOTION

APPROVAL FOR THE RATIFICATION OF THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY (SADC) PROTOCOL ON ENVIRONMENT MANAGEMENT FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT

             THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. NYONI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. 

            WHEREAS Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any international treaty which has been concluded or executed by the President’s Authority does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament;

           WHEREAS Zimbabwe signed the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Environment Management for Sustainable Development on 18^th August 2014, along with eight (8) other SADC Member States;

            WHEREAS the Protocol will enter into force thirty (30) days after the deposit of instruments of ratification by two-thirds of the SADC Member States;

          AND WHEREAS to date, four Member States have ratified the Protocol:

          NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327(2)(a) of the Constitution, this House resolves that the aforesaid Protocol be and is hereby approved for ratification.

         This protocol was circulated and I am sure the Hon. Members had time to consider it.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I hereby move that the protocol be approved for ratification by this Honourable House.

         HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I just want to raise two fundamental issues in respect to this protocol which I believe the Hon. Minister should be in a position to explain to this august House.

         First and foremost, Mr. Speaker Sir, whilst the protocol could actually have been circulated, the procedure ordinarily is that the Hon. Minister is supposed to talk through it.  It is important for this debate that the Hon. Minister takes us through the protocol in case some Members of the public who follow the Hansard need to follow and find out what the protocol says.  Generally, we expected the Hon. Minister to just highlight the tenets of this protocol. 

       The second issue Mr. Speaker that I think is also crucial is that…

        Hon. Bonda having sat down without bowing to the Chair.

       THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, order! Hon. Member who has just sat down, please go outside and come in the proper way – do obeisance to the Chair, that is what the rules say.  Thank you.   The Hon. Member who is sitting next to the door, yourself, yes. – [HON. BONDA: I did Mr. Speaker.] -   No, you did not.

       Hon. Bonda having exited from the Chamber.

       Thank you.  Please proceed Hon. Mushoriwa.

        HON. MUSHORIWA:  The second issue that I want to raise which I think is fundamental and also believe the Hon. Minister should also have favoured this august House with; this protocol was signed by Zimbabwe in 2014, and it is now 2024 – that is a gap of 10 years.  One of the things that we would have expected was to enquire from the Hon. Minister why it took a decade for the protocol to come before this august House for ratification. 

I say this Mr. Speaker Sir, because we believe that whenever the President, as the head of the Executive, commits his signature, one would believe that due diligence has been done and to that extent, we would then expect the protocol to come before this august House at a maximum period of about three years – assuming that in a year, two or three, the Executive may want to look into it and see the merits and demerits of it. But 10 years Mr. Speaker Sir, to me, is fairly a long period of time.

When you then check in terms of the protocol itself, in principle Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not think we would have a problem in terms of having the protocol ratified, especially when you look in respect to our region as SADC.  You are aware Mr. Speaker Sir, that in terms of movement of our wildlife and even in terms of our inheritance as a region, we are so endowed with wild animals and other stuff that the good Lord gave us.  Naturally, we need to make sure that as SADC, we collaborate and make sure that we maintain our environment in a sustainable manner.  What I do not know Mr. Speaker, as we speak, this is why I had hoped that we would get the background.  We understand that eight countries had signed and we now know that four have already ratified – meaning that Zimbabwe will be the fifth.  Could there be any reasons as to why some of the countries in the SADC region did not sign to this protocol?  Secondly, could there be a reason that maybe the Hon. Minister could favour us?  Could there also be a reason why close to 50% of those who signed are moving at a tortoise speed to make sure that the protocol is ratified?

So, Mr. Speaker Sir, these are my submissions and enquiries that I think the Hon. Minister can favour us.  In other words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would not have a problem with the protocol being ratified by this august House.  I just thought that the Hon. Minister could favour us with some this information.  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. S. NYONI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the very pertinent issues that he raised.  First of all, let me say I think, there was an oversight maybe on my predecessors on why the protocol has taken so long.  I would like to plead to this House that we take it from where it is now then we move forward.

On the second issue that I should have summarised the protocol – I agree.  I thought that since it was circulated and knowing how the Hon. Members of this august House fervently read papers, I thought they would have read.  I am sure that most of them have read.  So, I also want to plead that we ratify or pass the protocol. 

Lastly, Mr. Speaker Sir, I really would not know why the other countries are not signing or taking this urgently.  As Zimbabwe, we are taking environment very seriously and would like to carry our Members with us and we would like to carry the whole nation with us.  We want to show SADC and other countries that environment is very important and that environment is life.  If we do not manage our environmental issues properly, it really means that we are not managing the future of our children.  Therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to appeal to this august House that we ratify this protocol.  I thank you.

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you so much Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you so much Hon. Minister for introducing the protocol. However, I would like to make a special plea and request to the Hon. Minister to give us more opportunity to interrogate this protocol especially with regards to the issues that Hon. Mushoriwa has raised. Also, on my side to the extent that this protocol was signed in 2014 a lot was originally drafted in 2014 and a lot has happened in the last 10 years especially to the issues around climate change and how it affects sustainable development from an environmental perspective. So, it is important that we double check, we go through this protocol without just ratifying it immediately. So, I am kindly requesting the Hon. Minister maybe, to defer the ratification process at least by a day so that we have thorough debate.  I am also concerned that we want to ratify protocols without debating them as a Parliament especially from a Portfolio Committee point of view, it will be very important that Members of the relevant Portfolio Committee take the leadership in terms of discussing the protocol because the broader public of Zimbabwe would expect us to unpack the protocol because once it is ratified, it will be assumed that the entire Zimbabwe has accepted the protocol. To that extent, we need to unpack in the august House to ensure that the public has a starting point in terms of awareness. Most of the protocols which we are ratifying; we have been ratifying them without debate and in that context, they lose relevance to the public because they will just be academic documents that will gather dust in the minds of millions of citizens.  Environmental issues are very important for us as Zimbabweans especially this moment in time when we are facing drought induced by climate change. It is important that we give at least another opportunity so that we debate it. I am one of those people who are not ready to debate before ratification so I am pleading with the Hon. Minister to give us a second opportunity so that we can debate it before ratifying the protocol. Thank you so much.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. S. NYONI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think considering that the Portfolio Committee for my Ministry has just been constituted and they would like to go through their protocol, I think I would like to give them time to do that. I also plead with this august House Mr. Speaker Sir, that if they could do it expeditiously and as we speak, even the report of my Bill is not in place. I would like to say because of those changes, let me give the Committee time to look at the Bill and the Protocol. I think it is already here in Parliament. It was submitted in Parliament, if it could be circulated and then put back on the Order Paper as soon as possible. I will then bring a summary as is requested so that we can move forward. My desire is that my new Committee and my Ministry, we move together and we do things together to promote the governance of Zimbabwe. I thank you.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister. I suppose what we have done displays that you are actually working together with your Committee.  I urge Hon. Members who have been blaming Ministers for not doing their job in this House to take note that when we do things jointly, we should not blame each other. Thank you very much.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. S. NYONI): Thank you Hon. Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24^th September, 2024.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HON. KAMBUZUMA: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 4 to 7, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 8 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of.

HON. GUMEDE: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

SECOND READING

FINANCE (2024) BILL [H. B. 8, 2024]

Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the second reading of the Finance (2024) Bill [H. B. 8,2024].

         *HON. HUNGWE:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I stand up to contribute to this Bill briefly.  Firstly, I would like to appreciate the Minister for churning out policies that promote the use of the local currency.  We appreciate that. Secondly, there is an issue about charging duty on fuel that is in transit to DRC or other countries.  If you really look at it, there is really nothing that we benefit because the person pays money from Mutare but they recover it in Chirundu. All that we are doing is that we are just giving a lot of work to our employees who will just handle money that is not even beneficial to them, which means we will need more employees.  So that is not helpful for us as Government to get money.  I think there is a loss on that part because it means we will need more employees to work on that process.

         Whilst on that issue, the reason why we were doing that is because we want to avoid the smuggling of fuel, but we realise that when these trucks come in to the border where there are ZIMRA officials, when you go to Chirundu, you will also find that there are ZIMRA employees again, but these people are not equipped with machinery to test the chemical composition of the fuel to find out whether it is diesel or petrol and to ascertain whether it is the same fuel that will enter through Mutare that is now leaving. So, we are saying these are the same people who have always been doing that.  They are the same people who are now supposed to be collecting money and returning it.  So, I think there is no need for us to give ourselves a headache of handling the money that we charge people from Mutare Forbes Border and return it to Chirundu.

         It does not work because the same ZIMRA people are the ones who are handling the money, so I do not think it solves anything. My suggestion is, why do we not make use of seals?  We realise that in our system they are very few. There are a lot of trucks that do not have seals.  We can reduce smuggling through seals. The truck can be sealed at the point of entry and removed at the point of exit.  If it was a revenue measure, I think there is another opinion that we may explore.

         There are importers and exporters.  We have a lot of minerals including chrome that are being exported, yet there are also people who are importing for example fuel, but there are no systems of monitoring how their monies are going. You will realise that someone might be an importer.  They bring tonnes of goods, 10 or 15 trucks but as Government, we are not even tracing how that money was used to buy those goods.  It is very important to ensure that the money went through banks and that way, they will pay taxes.  Then there are people who export minerals.  We realise that their money is not going through our systems properly.  It would help us if those people who will be exporting to China for example, for that money to come back to the banks and we properly tax it at 25%.  That way, it may be efficient.  We may be able to monitor revenue as well as plug their leakages.

         I also think that from the minerals that are being exported, we are not getting a lot of money from it.  We should add laws to ensure that we get more revenue, especially on unprocessed minerals like chrome and lithium.  We need to levy them so that at least we get more revenue from that.

I appreciate that the Minister proposed that most of Government ministries are using Government money, the ZiG, our local currency, but before you go very far, we have 210 constituencies in Zimbabwe. If you look at awareness, you realise that most of the people do not even know the ZiG and they do not even know how to work with it.  So, before we even promote its use, we need to understand it.  If it is a backed currency, what does it mean?  Many people do not understand it and that is leading to its falling in terms of value.  I think we need to increase awareness in this country, the understanding of the ZiG, before we promote its actual use.

         When it comes to its use, you realise that the cash is not there.  Where you are supposed to use it in banks, in plastic money, sometimes you go to a shop and you want to swipe. When that machine is not working, it means that you are now supposed to look for cash.  You go to a shop and you are told the swipe machine is not working, so you are forced to look for cash.

We need to come up with laws.  When we say we are promoting the use of the local currency or the ZiG, it should not be just talking but let us have answers.  If you are to go out into shops right now, you may go into 15 shops or so and you fail to find where you make a payment.  So at the end of the day, people will even skip tax payments and that also reduces the revenue collection.

With regards the budget, I would like to request the Hon. Minister that some of the figures that are brought to this House, sometimes we go as far as September when there is only a quarter of the funds released.  We request that funds must be expeditiously released.  Through the Committees, we realise that most of the ministries do not receive their funds on time.  We realise that we talk about the budget most of the time, yet the money is not disbursed for use.  We are now almost in October while some of the money like us as Members of Parliament, especially the CDF, we have not yet received it.  When we were told that it was converted, most of the people do not even know how much it is.  There is need for transparency.  We are only left with three months.  We might risk being told that it is over.  So, we would like to request the Hon. Minister about the release of the funds. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity.  I thank you.

         HON. GANYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for allowing me to share the very few points that I have this afternoon regarding this Finance Bill brought before this august House.  I would like to start with the area in which the Hon. Minister proposed that we can also have some revenue which is the area of the pharmaceutical industry to start with.  Of course, I am going to touch on other areas.

         Yes, in my view, this is a welcome move to see that the industry of pharmaceuticals also contributes to the economy as other industries and as expected.  However, some issues need to be re-looked into to make sure that we are not going to face issues of shortage to the medical supply in our country or to have the medicine increase prices when one goes over the counter to buy medication.

         I propose that the Minister should at least put these medicines in categories through the use of the Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe (MCAZ) because we see that there are a lot of things that have been put under the medicines.  I can give an example, here whereby it reads that the pharmaceutical retail industry in Zimbabwe involves the sale and distribution of medication and health-related products to consumers through retail, pharmacies and other outlets.  This industry plays a crucial role in providing access to essential medication and healthcare products contributing to public health and well-being.

  The industry is classified into the following segments:- Community pharmacies -  retail outlets that provide medication over the counter, drugs and health-related products directly to consumers; hospital pharmacies – pharmacies located within the hospital that supply medications to in-patients and out-patients ensuring proper medication, management and personal care; online pharmacy – digital platforms that offer the sell and delivery of medication and health products providing convenience to the accessibility to consumers.

         Let me touch on the three issues that have been highlighted here.  You can see that most pharmacies that are located within the hospitals concentrate much on the medicines required for the patients when they are in need.  However, other pharmacies in and around town or in communities now have a greater part of the whole chemistry or pharmacy selling what is regarded as supplements.  So, those products, I think should be categorised and at least have their tax increased as compared to the basic medicines that we all require because medicine is a necessity that one cannot live without, but there are those that are used to enhance the beauty of people.  So, the tax should be increased because they can be used as an option rather than a necessity.  So, I look forward to seeing the Minister of course increasing the tax around those areas which I have mentioned.

         We also have a scenario whereby we do have a mushrooming of boot pharmacies that are being sold by individuals.  As the Hon. Minister has highlighted, some are being sold on digital platforms. If we do not ring-fence when these products are being brought into our country and make sure that we collect what belongs to Caesar at the port of entry when they are within someone’s boot being sold there on a digital platform, it is very difficult to collect tax even if we are to state it in our Finance Bill that we are going to look forward to collecting tax there.  We need to make sure that we collect our tax at the port of entry when they are getting in the country.

         I also suggest the use of MCAZ and sorting offices be prioritised such that those points are used to make sure that in conjunction with the ZIMRA, they tighten the screws such that we increase the revenue.

The other reason why the Hon. Minister can also increase taxes on the things that I have talked about is because it concerns the health risks associated with some of the products being brought by other nationalities.  We have foreigners without mentioning their countries, but we are seeing this being smuggled through various border posts.  Some of them are not even properly authorised to use.  So, it might not be the duty of the Ministry of Finance to put laws that can ban those products from coming into our country, but they can introduce heavy taxes on them.

         Madam Speaker, yes there is an outcry from some sections that Zimbabwe’s economy is overtaxed but it is a perception, not a definition. Perception is the way how you see things and definitions mean the correct way of seeing things.   I want to defend it in this way; I agree that Zimbabwe’s economy is overtaxed in the real formal industry and commerce, but you see to it that it is under or non-taxed in some semi-formalised sectors whereby a lot of people play around to run away from paying tax somewhere somehow.  Yes, it can be a big retail shop with a certificate that states that they complied with tax but if you get into those shops when you want to seek services from those shops, you can tell from the receipt that these people have got a chain of shops around the town or country, but they are not properly paying the tax which then leaves other sectors being overburdened or over taxed.

         We also do have the complete informal sector that need other new methods to make sure that they tap into the revenue because facts on the ground are that much of the foreign currency is circulating in the informal sector other than in the formal sector. Hence, the need to make sure that we put mechanisms, especially the mechanism that include the use of digitalisation to make sure that we enhance or increase our revenue collection as the Minister superintends the Ministry of Finance.

In Shona kureva kuti ibazi rezvemari and Finance and Economic Development kureva kuti kufambiswa kwezveupfumi munyika. What it basically means is that the Ministry requires a lot of money for other ministries to function.  Therefore, there is a need for co-existence from other ministries such as Home Affairs and other law enforcement agents to help the Ministry of Finance to enforce and to make sure that we reduce revenue leakages. 

The other issue, I am sure most of the Hon. Members in this august House have come across people who complain when they are visited by employees from Caesar’s department. If one is sent to do routine checks within the informal sector and semi-informal sector, even to some formal sector, instead of coming with actual figures, one company will have evaded paying tax, they balloon so that one can get frightened.  When one is frightened, they will come again around and negotiate to say we can make it less. How? It is because we are very behind when it comes to digitalisation of the fiscals and in order to curb the leakages in our revenue collections, I would want to suggest without an apology to the Minister to say, it seems we are very much behind  in using digital devices that can reduce the human interaction when it comes to the revenue collection. 

The other thing, yes of course, one Hon. Member has spoken of letting the people that are going outside the country paying the duty for fuel at the port of entry and having their money refunded at the port of exit.  I do not need to over-emphasise because the rest have been talked about but we can again use trackers. We can use trackers that can be redeemed when one is truly exiting with the product that we believe to be going to other neighbouring countries. This also helps to make sure that we continue having our diplomatic relations with other regional sister countries and without also causing inconvenience in their cargo movements. 

So, the issue, through you Madam Speaker, to the Minister here present, is that we need to look deep into using the modern technology in order to collect more in the much informalised economy of our country. We also welcome the move by the Minister whereby he proposed to visit small shops. I hope this does include those small tuckshops where we see foreigners dominating inasmuch as we have talked about respecting the reserved area for the indigenous and local people. 

The other thing, we should come out, in my view, with different taxation systems if one wants to operate a business especially for the reason best known to that particular business owner in the reserved area. We should come stiffer or have heavy taxes such that we reduce the competition between the locals and foreigners because sometimes we may not win the war of having these so-called protected zones and areas as we have witnessed a lot of people that are operating or doing business within the reserved area. So, we can come out with a taxation system that is tailor-made for those who need to do this. Let me conclude by saying yes, what I wanted to get into is long for me to come out with what I wanted the Minister to take note of.  I thank you.

HON. V. MOYO: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I want to also add my voice on the Bill.  I will premise my debate on currency reforms and the exchange rate management.  The issue of the exchange rate is one of the issues causing the economic instability that we are witnessing as a country as it is one of the variables that determines the inflation of our country.  Before the currency reform announcements, we had the assurance by the Minister and his deputy, ‘in the fullness of time’. Indeed, the fullness of time came amid confidence and assurance that all has been done to make sure that this ZiG will not face the same fate as the dollar, the bond and bond dollars as it was said to have been backed by our natural resources, especially gold.

There were also massive security operations to try and mop up all illicit dealings in foreign currency.  For a short while, we witnessed a smoke stability in the exchange rate but as we speak, the very ghost of a fall in value is haunting us again hindering economic growth, reducing disposable income of the majority of our citizens. There is one economist who once pointed out that in cases where there are dual or multi-currencies, one currency will overshadow the others.  In his own words, this economics says the good money will definitely chase the bad money.  Even in our families, we all want to believe we love our children equally but I know most of us, there is one that you love more than the other. According to the 2024 Mid-Term Budget and Economic Review document that was presented…

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. TSITSI ZHOU): Order Hon. Moyo, there is a lot of conversing in the House and you are conversing loudly.  Can you allow the Hon. Member to be heard in silence?  Please proceed.

         HON. V. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  As I was saying, according to the 2024 Mid-Term Budget and Economic Review document performance by the banking sector, 80% of the transactions are in USD.  The market is picking and my question is, for how long are we going to ignore and disregard in pursuit of the mono-currency regime?  As long as we can not access foreign currency over the formal counter in formal institutions, this song will keep on playing.  After massive payments, we know that for goods, services and projects by our Government in our local currency, the very same service providers will be in the market in pursuit of the USD.  This does not assist us because as long as people do not have confidence in our local currency, we will keep going round in circles. 

         Madam Speaker Ma’am, one of the most topical questions that people are asking is, when is our fuel ever going to be bought in our local currency? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-  So, my plea is for us to be honest with ourselves with regards to foreign currency.  I mean the exchange rates.  Are we going to dollarise completely, use our own, dollarise as in forex or are we going to use our own currency? The reason is that all has been said and done as the Minister has said but still the issue of the exchange rate instability is still upon us.  With those few words, I submit.  Thank you.  

HON. DR. KHUPE: I would like to preface my debate by talking about a subject which is close to my heart, which is the informal sector.  Let me highlight that the informal sector can potentially play a key role in the economic development agenda and at the same time, it has the capacity to create employment.  The informal sector can be a solid anchor upon which a strong economic take-off can be premised.

The manufacturing sector of yester-year used to generate a substantial amount of foreign currency inflows into the fiscus.  Cotton printers produced bed linen which was being exported to other countries in the world, Merlin Towels made towels for export, G and D shoes exported leather bags and shoes, Van Heusen shirts were being exported to the UK and at some point, one of the prominent figures in Zimbabwe went to the UK and l am told he bought 15 Van Heusen shirts and one of his aides said, ‘Sir these shirts are being made in Bulawayo’ and when they landed, they went to Bulawayo and they saw those shirts being produced. National blankets exported blankets to Botswana and some people used to go to Botswana to buy blankets which were being produced in Zimbabwe.

 All this is pointing to the fact that we can still do it.  All the people in the informal sector are the people who were in the manufacturing sector back then.  These people still have the skills, but what they do not have is capital to spruce up their businesses.

Having said this, it is a fact that Zimbabwe is highly informalised with about 86% of the population being informal traders and only 14% being in the formal sector.  What this means is that the Minister of Finance is only collecting income taxes from 14% of the people leaving out 86%.  One of the Hon. Members yesterday said the Minister must chase our revenue collection measures to where the money is flowing, meaning that the informal sector must be taxed.  I agree with this assertion. However as far as l am concerned, the Minister must first of all sow a seed in order for him to reap fruits.   The informal sector is a fertile ground such that if the Minister sows seeds, he will be able to reap fruits within a short space of time.

I would like to implore the Minister to start by sowing a seed in the informal sector because the informal sector is a fertile ground which has the capacity of producing enough fruits to take care of all citizens. I propose that the Minister must first and foremost, avail foreign currency to the informal sector so that they start to produce goods and move away from being a supermarket for other countries.

Right now, as we speak, money is leaving Zimbabwe to other countries through the informal sector, who go to other countries to buy goods which they sell to Zimbabweans, they collect foreign currency from Zimbabwe, take it to other countries and bring goods for resale, the process goes on and on and yet there is no new money coming into the country.  Zimbabwe requires new money and new money can only be realised if we start to produce and export.

Instead of our informal sector being a supermarket for other countries, they must begin to produce all the goods they are buying from other countries because they have the skill to produce. Once they start to produce, export their products to other countries and make profits, then you can start to tax them Hon. Minister.  Right now, you cannot tax someone who is surviving from hand to mouth because they do not have that extra dollar that you want to tax.

I would like to conclude by saying, Hon. Minister of Finance, please can you sow a seed by financing the informal sector. Believe me, you will soon be reaping fruits from that sector. If you invest adequate foreign currency to the informal sector, within a short space of time, you will start to reap fruits that will satisfy every citizen's needs.

Yes, I am alive to the fact that you have various constraints but my advice is, can you swallow the bullet and avail resources towards the informal sector? This is what I call present pain for future hope.  Yes, you will go through this pain, but at the end of it, you will start to enjoy the fruits of your pain.

The people of Zimbabwe want a better life and they can only achieve this if they have jobs, food, a roof above their heads, water and sanitation, if they have electricity for 365 days, if they have good education and good health.  Funding the informal sector will improve our revenue inflows. I rest my case.

         HON. NYABANI:  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  Let me contribute a few facts pertaining to this debate.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, you cannot say …

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Nyabani, you may want to raise your voice.

         *HON. NYABANI:  Madam Speaker Ma’am, as a country we cannot say we have got our own currency if that currency does not buy fuel, passports or car number plates – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- I think as laymen, we would be undermining our currency as Zimbabwe.  The majority of our people live in rural areas where we must utilise this ZiG currency. 

         So, I urge the Hon. Minister to make sure that this ZiG buys these essential products. I think the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion must centralise the paying systems in all Government departments.  They must use Artificial Intelligence (AI) and also it must invest in border security. We hear that at least eight to ten fuel tankers pass through unauthorised illegal points.  The duty paid twice by traffickers before refund makes it unattractive and it is against the ease of doing business.  

         Let us allow institutions like Harare Institute of Technology (HIT) to make seals for tracking trucks to fight smuggling and money laundering, all import payments should be paid through banks.  All duty payments at borders should be cashless.  Let us have a road map to make sure that at least 90% of our payments are cashless – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  Let us come up with policies that promote the operation of the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange so that companies can get money from that process. 

         Increase the budget for border security and buy more drones.  I think, in Zimbabwe, we have very few drones that patrol our borders.  So, it is vital for the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion to buy drones that will patrol along the borders so that there is no smuggling through the borders – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

         Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is high time that we speak the truth for the betterment of our country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  The black-market rate is now hovering at 36 and in all shops, they are not accepting the ZiG currency.  So, as the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion, what measures are you taking to moderate or to make sure that ZiG is going to work for the betterment of this country? I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

         ^*HON. MAMBIPIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to add my voice to the Mid-Term Statement that was tabled by the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment.  I do not want to repeat what others have said, but have four points that I want the Hon. Minister to understand.

Firstly, I want to applaud the Indigenous and Empowerment Act to which the Hon. Minister said the haulage truck business is no longer available to foreigners because the Chinese were running those businesses.  They mine lithium and other minerals and use their vehicles to transport the minerals to South Africa and Mozambique.  So, our local truckers were now crying foul because they were being chucked out of business.  The challenge that we have is that the Hon. Minister has enacted a law and said such type of businesses are now privy to Zimbabweans only.  The Chinese have now registered their vehicles both in South Africa and Mozambique, meaning that they are still transporting the minerals – nothing has changed.  Hence, the law is not answering to this.  So, I am pleading to the Hon. Minister to go ahead and investigate the companies that are mining chrome and lithium and those that are transporting the minerals to Mozambique and South Africa.  The Hon. Minister should come up with a quota system so that 50% of the minerals are given to locals so that they are able to work.

  My second point is when the Hon. Minister speaks to us, he will be talking to economics that is supported by what has been investigated by the professionals in his office.  What is surprising is the issue of numbers, it does not have twins.  When we say five is five and when it is 10, it is 10 but the challenge that we are facing is when the Hon. Minister brings his statements here, there are a lot of numbers.  When we met in the Multipurpose Hall last week, he said that the wealth of Zimbabwe, as it currently stands is at 21 billion GDP, our GDP was at 21 billion but four weeks later, when he presented his Budget Statement, he said that our GDP is now $35 billion.  It is surprising that GDP will rise by $15 billion within a few weeks.  We listened and thought that probably he is getting the information from his professionals.  What further surprised us was that nine months later, he informed us on how the money had been disbursed.  The Hon. Minister and Cabinet, are saying our GDP has risen from $21 billion to $60 billion.  This way of presenting figures Hon. Speaker, figures that do not tally with what economists say shows that those who want to support us will tire and will not take us seriously, including what the Hon. Minister is saying. 

  The last thing that I want to talk about is how money is used.   When we come to this House, if we agree that this is how we are going to disburse our money, we expect the Hon. Minister to do likewise.  It does not help us that when we come here and agree to allocate $100 million to education but when we get to October, the ministry does not receive that money. Last year in 2023, we agreed on the budget that was to be used in 2024. We agreed on the allocation for the Ministry of Education but if we are to check, the Ministry has not yet received all the money. There are a lot of challenges in the schools, teachers are having problems, children do not have books, some are even learning in the open area but according to the Ministry’s plan, education has only used 33% of what they are supposed to get.  Where is the other money and when is it going to be disbursed? The same applies to the Ministry of Health and Child Care. If we look at the budget that we agreed at, it is disheartening to hear the Minister saying that the Ministry of Health this year has only used 26% of their allocation. In our hospitals where even Hon. Members are treated, there are a lot of challenges, patients do not afford the cheapest drugs. It is very painful to hear that our patients are not benefitting from the budget allocation.

Lastly, I want to talk about the issue of presumptive taxes. It is painful to know that the Minister is following up on the people of Zimbabwe with small businesses such as nail technicians, barbers, and driving schools asking for taxes yet they realise small profits from their businesses. They are not making a follow up on those with businesses that are thriving, especially foreign investors who are being given a lot of tax breaks. Those in mining sector, for example lithium, chrome and the Chinese are given 10 years without paying taxes but our brothers with small businesses are being forced to pay tax. I urge the Hon. Minister to look into that so that citizens do their businesses freely and tax those foreign investors heavily. Thank you.

HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker, for affording me this opportunity to voice my views on the Finance Bill (2024) which is before us. The Bill represents a crucial step in the ongoing efforts by the Government to enhance fiscal stability, sustainability, to stimulate economic growth and ensure that the benefits of our economic policies are felt by all Zimbabweans. The Finance Bill (2024) is not a mere collection of fiscal adjustment. It is a comprehensive package of measures aimed at strengthening our economy, promoting social equity and position Zimbabwe on a path to long term prosperity.

I would like to thank the Second Republic for such a determined fight for the development of our motherland Zimbabwe through the wise and visionary leadership of our President, His Excellency Cde. Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa for indeed appointing the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development and Investment Promotion, Hon. Prof. M. Ncube to lead us in this crusade to provide a detailed analysis of the proposed measures. In the middle of many challenges and hostile challenges and just to name a few, drought induced because of El Nino and of course because of the sanctions that have been put upon us.

The environment is a hostile one but we thank God for such wise leadership that emphasises the need for tax regime that is not only robust and revenue generating but also fair, inclusive and conducive to sustainable economic growth in Zimbabwe. I do understand that there are negative people who are dangerous to our economy, to our nation that assume that the ZiG must fail and is failing. I would want to come, maybe prophesy and speak and say, the ZiG shall succeed. I have a good feeling that everything is going to be alright. The ZiG is going to take its own form and in the days to come, the ZiG shall be 1:1 with the United States Dollars.

There are other men that might come here and say, ‘men of God here in Parliament, you have come, why are you speaking like that but I have a story for you. There was a man …’

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order Hon. Kangausaru, can you allow the Hon. Member to be heard in silence? We will always get the chance to debate. Please proceed Hon. Kangausaru – [HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Inaudible interjection.] - Please proceed Hon. Kangausaru.

HON. KANGAUSARU: ‘There was a man because there was hunger, a woman and another woman said to one another, let us eat your baby and they ate the baby.  The following day they came and said, let us eat your baby and the other one refused. They went to the king and asked the king to hear their story. Yesterday, we ate my child and now I am asking her to eat her baby today…’

HON. GUMEDE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order

Honourable?

HON. GUMEDE: I humbly ask the Hon. Member to stick to the Bill not to prophecy. I thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is overruled. Hon. Kangausaru, continue with your debate.

HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Shall I prophecy? What happened there – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please do so and stick to the debate. Thank you.

HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you Madam Speaker. They told their God and the Man of God began to prophecy and said, ‘tomorrow by this time you shall have this and this’ but there were others that were negative who said even if it rains, even if it happens, it will never happen for Zimbabwe. It will not happen for our ZiG but the following day, what happened, if you can go and read that Chapter, it happened that there was abundance, reversal and the situation was so favourable. Let me speak today, at the heart of the Finance Bill 2024 which is a commitment to enhancing revenue generation through a more progressive and equitable taxation system. The Bill proposes significant changes to the Income Tax Act particularly with the adjustment of the tax-free threshold to ZiG12 204 and the restructuring of the tax bands.  By setting the highest marginal tax rate at 40% for incomes above ZiG362 120, the Bill ensures that those who earn more contribute proportionately more to Treasury.

         My suggestion Madam Speaker is that we must also include those in the informal sector because they must also contribute according to how God blesses them in proportion.  So, it must be inclusive. To those in the informal sector, my suggestion is that we might look for landlords where these people in the informal sector are running, then we can be able to say let them contribute a little.  The Government must set up a system where these landlords can contribute a small amount.  In the church we say contribute on how God blesses you.  If you have 2 rands it matters.  Even the woman who was there when the rich were casting, she also cast hers and it was considered by the Lord that she had given even better than others.

         I suggest that we also set up a system whereby we include our informal sector.  We include them by saying ZIMRA is there to make your business grow and become bigger and bigger.  That is my suggestion Madam Speaker.  This approach is critical in addressing income inequity and promoting social equity.  It alleviates the tax burden on low income earners enabling them to return more of their earnings for essential needs thereby improving their standards of living. At the same time, it asks more for those who are better positioned to contribute reflecting a fair distribution of the tax burden across the society. This progressive taxation system is not only a tool for generating income, but also a mechanism of redistributing wealth in a way that fosters social coherence and coercion and economic stability.

Madam Speaker, another cornerstone of the Bill is to focus on strengthening tax compliance and broadening the tax base.  The Bill introduces several measures aimed at capturing revenue from sectors that have traditionally been undertaxed or entirely outside the formal tax system.

Clause 6, Madam Speaker, for example revises Section 22 (c) of the Finance Act to introduce a structured presumptive tax regime targeting informal sectors, small scale miners and operators in various sectors.  The inclusion of these groups in the tax net is a critical development, given the significant role of the informal sector plays in Zimbabwe’s economy by formalising the tax obligations of these sectors, the Bill ensures that all economic participants contribute to national development thereby broadening the tax base and increasing overall revenue collection.

Moreover, the Bill places a strong emphasis on the compliance by requiring professionals and businesses to produce valid tax clearance certificates as a prerequisite for certain operations as stipulated in Clause 10.  This measure is particularly important for combating tax evasion which has long been a challenge in our revenue collection efforts.  That is where I said there must be an awareness, there must be teachings, there must be help that must come to the informal sector to say look here we are not here to punish you.  We are here to make sure that you are compliant and when you are compliant, you build your business and when your business grows, you shall become like any other big businesses and moreover these people that are there that are in the informal sector desire, are yearning to become the big corporate tomorrow.

So henceforth, there is a need for the Government to make sure that they help those people that are in the informal sector to tell them and to educate them, to make them aware that when you are compliant, it is not that you must evade and run away from paying tax.  Pay the little that you have and it must be reasonable so that they can build up and as a result, we shall build the Zimbabwe that we want.  The Zimbabwe anchored of prosperity and success.

This measure is particularly important like I said for combating tax evasion which has long been a challenge in our revenue collection efforts by tightening compliance.  The Bill not only increases revenue but also promotes a culture of accountability, discipline and responsibility among the tax payers.

Investment is the lifeblood of economic growth.  The Finance Bill, 2024 recognises this by introducing several tax incentives aimed at attracting both domestic and foreign investment.  Clause 15 of the Bill is particularly noteworthy as it provides for the deferment of tax on capital goods for a period of up to three years for investments in key industries such as manufacturing and agriculture. 

This provision is critical for reducing the upfront cost of investment making Zimbabwe a more attractive destination for investment, making ease of business.  The extended deferment period acknowledges the long gestation periods associated with large scale industrial and agricultural projects thereby aligning tax policy with the practical realities of business operations.  By facilitating investment in these sectors the Bill lays the ground work for job creation, industrialisation and diversification of our economy which are essential for sustainable growth. 

In addition, Madam Speaker, most of these innovative projects of the Finance Bill 2024 is the introduction of the Zimbabwe Gold Currency, the Zig, as outlined in Clause 25.  This new currency backed by real assets such as gold and other precious metals represent a bold step towards enhancing the credibility and stability of Zimbabwe's monetary system.  Madam Speaker, I would like to emphasise that the Government must continue to arrest and to make sure they fight those that are found to bedevil our currency are arrested so that we can be able to protect the ZiG from unscrupulous elements.

The ZiG currency is designed to be a reliable store of value with its worth pegged to the spot price of gold anchored by a composite basket of foreign currency reserves and valuable minerals held by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.  This mechanism provides the robust safeguard against inflationary pressures and currency volatility which have historically undermined economic stability in our country. Moreover, the introduction of the ZiG notes and coins as a legal tender along other currencies, offer Zimbabwe a stable and secure medium of exchange, which is crucial for restoring confidence in our financial system. This move is expected to attract investment, both locally and internationally, by providing a stable environment for business operations and long-term financial planning.

Madam Speaker, the Finance Bill 2024, also addresses critical governance issues by aligning the operations of State-owned entities with constitutional mandates, particularly concerning the procurement processes. Clause 29 amends the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Act to ensure that all assets, all State controlled commercial entities…

– [Time Limit] –

Thank you Madam Speaker. Commercial entities adhere to transparent, discipline, open and competitive procurement practices as required by Section 195 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. This amendment is a significant step towards enhancing the efficiency and accountability of public spending. By bringing state-owned entities under the purview of standard procurement regulations, the Bill aims to curb corruption, which is a cancer. If we could be able to secure it, Zimbabwe will be a better country. To reduce waste and ensure that public resources are used effectively and transparently. This alignment with constitutional requirements not only strengthens governance, but also builds public trust in Government Institutions, which is essential for the legitimacy and effectiveness of public administration.

In addition to its economic objectives, the Finance Bill, 2024 also addresses social issues and promotes equity through various provisions. The Bill amends the Income Tax Act to exempt certain bonuses and performance-related awards from income tax as long as they do not exceed a specific threshold, as seen in Clause 11. This exemption is a positive step towards improving the welfare of employees, particularly those in lower income brackets by allowing them to retain a larger portion of their earnings.

Moreover, Madam Speaker, the Bill’s provisions for the new presumptive tax regime takes into consideration the diverse nature of the informal sector with the different rates applied based on the type of business activities. This refined nuanced approach ensures that the tax burden is distributed fairly across different economic activities, thereby promoting equity and inclusivity in the tax system.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I want to hammer that the Finance Bill, 2024 is a forward-looking piece of legislation that addresses both the immediate and long-term needs of our economy and our children to come. It is a well balanced and comprehensive Bill that seeks to enhance revenue generation, promote investment, strengthen compliance and align public entities with constitutional mandates.

In light of these considerations, I strongly urge all Hon. Members of this House to support the Finance Bill, 2024.  It is a Bill that reflects the Government of Zimbabwe’s commitment to building a prosperous, inclusive and resilient Zimbabwe. I believe that with the passing of this Bill, we will be taking a significant step towards achieving our national development goals and securing a better future for all Zimbabweans by the year 2010.

Let me conclude by saying, I have a feeling that everything is going to be alright for Zimbabwe and for our nation. I have a feeling –Benjamin Burombo says, “Each time I want to fight for African rights, I use my one hand because the other hand is busy to keep away my brethren who are fighting me. I thank you.

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Madam Speaker. When my wife and I looked at this Bill at home, we said that we need to stand up, look closely at the small to medium enterprises (SMEs). This is now the backbone of our economy by the very nature of the work that they do. There is a word that is difficult to talk about when you talk of informal employment in Zimbabwe. These are the small to medium enterprises. A long time ago, there were some hawkers’ licences that one would use, either in the Harare City Centre or in Bulawayo. If you would go there around 1600 hours, you would find a lot of small to medium enterprises congregating in Harare to sell. We are hoping that the Government will come up with hawkers’ licences and licence these people that are into informal trading. We may have three million SMEs and they would be given licences as vendors. As a result of that, the Government can raise a lot of money.

As Government, we should be looking at such areas. If we look at big companies such as Mohammed Mussa, they can sell goods worth five to six million or two million per day, but there is no equipment that shows the amount that is received and where it is going to be banked. They are importing the goods, but we do not know whether they have a bank account where they withdraw such monies. In essence, the banks are not there.

Madam Speaker, when we look at this Bill, we should look closely at small-to-medium enterprises. In the SMEs sector, there are a lot of people that are into various trades. Let us look for ways for beneficiation and value addition. There was once a Minister of Finance who owned a company called MDC-Biti – [HON. MEMEBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

HON. MUSHORIWA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Mapiki. What is your point of order Mushoriwa?

HON. MUSHORIWA:  Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders do not allow us to name and talk about persons who are outside this august House, who are unable to defend themselves.  Therefore, it is not proper and unparliamentary for Hon. Mapiki to attack a person who is not in this august House, who does not have the leeway to defend himself. To that extent, Madam Speaker, I ask the Hon. Member to withdraw his statement.  

*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mapiki, if you are debating, please do not mention names of persons who are not Members of Parliament as they do not have a right to be heard. Withdraw your statement and continue – [HON. MEMEBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order! Hon. Members. Hon. Mapiki, please can you withdraw?

*HON. MAPIKI:  I withdraw but – [HON. MEMEBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I withdraw Madam Speaker that Hon. Biti was the Minister of Finance during the Government of National Unity (GNU). Be that as it may, Madam Speaker, when he was Minister of Finance at that time, he said we must eat what we kill. This is what I wanted to concentrate on as regards the former Minister during the GNU. I am saying as Zimbabweans, we should encourage the issue of value addition and beneficiation. When looking at the issue of diamonds Hon. Minister, the industry has gone quiet. There was construction of some diamonds and cutting companies in Mt. Hampden but as of now, nothing is going on because if we sell our diamonds without beneficiation, it will not fetch a good price. Once beneficiated and rings are produced, as Zimbabwe, we can have a lot of revenue out of that. We should be casting eyes in that direction as Zimbabweans. I was also looking at the elephant tusks that are a problem, we are not allowed to sell them by CITES. If we can make trophies out of elephant tusks, we can be in a position to sell these trophies with the CITES arrangements.

Madam Speaker, we have no clear policy in lithium and this is quite a bother to me. It does not matter that the world market has no money out of lithium products. We need batteries in Zimbabwe for use on motor vehicles. While looking at the price of lithium because we are buying batteries, we need to have a clear policy. Zimbabwe has about 95% of lithium and if we were to allow lithium to be mined, we would sell it like we sell maize to the Grain Marketing Board. Is there a clear policy of lithium? We are told that you cannot sell, ordinary people like myself, can we do that but if we ask those that are going to invest in this country, they should be allowed. The ordinary people should be allowed to mine without value addition and they then value add through construction of these companies. I was looking into this and take that direction. Those that are investing to Zimbabwe, we should write to them that Zimbabwe is open for business but not open for looting. I quote, “Zimbabwe should be open for business only and not open for looting”. Most of our materials are being exported raw.  If you go to the border, you see a lot of goods carrying ‘prohibited’ not beneficiated goods.  As Zimbabweans, let us utilise what we have.  We have gold which is being purchased by Fidelity Gold Printers and at the moment we now have licences.   

         The little gold is being sold to Fidelity; there are two laws that are being used in the gold sector. You have a licence for Fidelity and private operators who buy gold.  Fidelity buys at US$74 to US$78 per gram, private operators are buying at US$80.  Where are the private buyers taking their gold to when there is this disparity in the prices between the private players and the Government?  That is why I am saying, we must eat what we kill.  If private operators are being given licences so that they can bring gold to the Government, the price that Fidelity buys gold from ordinary people should be the same as that one for private operators.  Even the licence for mines in terms of pegging is very little.  One is asked to pay US$180 and the mine produces US$2 million, how is Zimbabwe benefiting in that regard?  Minister, we need to relook into this issue and see how best we can benefit from our minerals. 

Madam Speaker, there are some people that come and it is now a problem.  These are the ones that come to mine in Zimbabwe.  Their licencing fees should be different from those of the citizens of Zimbabwe.  If it is for gold mining, an ordinary person mines for a licence that is obtained at US$10 000, they should pay US$300 000 for their licences.  We should be looking closely at that issue. 

Coming to the issue of health, I was looking at the drugs in Zambia, ten packets of Panadol tablets cost a dollar, at one time I thought that these might be fake tablets.  I sent them to the laboratory for examination and they were declared to be genuine but if you want to buy them in Zimbabwe, it is ten dollars for those.  Is it possible that as Zimbabweans we will go and access medicines from Zambia and they are sold cheaply in Zimbabwe so that the majority of us who suffer from ailments can also have a better life?  These are the issues that we should look at. 

HON. DR. MUTODI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. According to Standing Order No. 85, it gives an Hon. Member the leeway to debate as much as possible and especially when the Bill is being read the first time.  On the second stage, we want to identify certain clauses that we want the Minister to attend to so that by the time …

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, Hon. Mutodi, please can you take your seat.  Hon. Mapiki, please can you continue.

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Madam Speaker for protecting me.  In conclusion Madam Speaker, I would want to look at what incomes could come.  I was hoping that our incomes could be widened and our expenditure could also be narrowed down.  Hopefully, the Minister would look at it in that regard.  I am through with the issue of health.  Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me an opportunity also to add my voice on this Bill.  I thank you. 

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions, very robust debate and passionate debate at times.  Let me start with the contributions from Hon. Mushoriwa who focused on the clause regarding the payment of duty and levies on fuel in transit as being implemented without Parliamentary approval.  As previously advised Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Members, will be aware of high incidences of transit fraud whereby fuel imported under the removal in transit facility is offloaded onto the local market without payment of requisite duty.  I must hasten to say that easily 30% of the fuel that is offloaded is done between Mutare and Harare and this is the busiest route. 

In this regard, a temporary administrative arrangement was put in place to safeguard revenue to the fiscus pending approval by Parliament and here we are debating.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, I wish to respond to Hon. Madzivanyika’s question on how Government is safeguarding against transit fraud which might emanate from fuel uplifted from the National Infrastructure Oil Company of Zimbabwe in Msasa and Mabvuku depot.  I wish to advise that the transit fraud is being safeguarded through the use of electronic seals fixed on traffic in transit under the current electronic cargo tracking management system.  ZIMRA our agent is acquiring more seals to make sure that more is covered. 

Furthermore, the tax administration has deployed escort personnel and vehicles to supplement the electronic cargo tracking management system.  Trucks are thus being released in batches in a single escort to efficiently manage the measure.

 In addition, Madam Speaker Ma’am, the system ASYCUDA which is used to manage the flow of goods into the country and also out in terms of whatever is in transit, is also being audited to strengthen its integrity so that it is not subject to easy interference by illicit activities.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Madzivanyika also raised an issue that transporters are being refunded duty and levies on fuel in transit upon submitting proof of a delivery note.  It is a fact that transporters are currently being refunded upon submission of bills of entry and proof of a delivery note in the country of destination to ensure that the fuel was delivered. I checked on this, and it is true.

However, this is an interim measure as efforts are being made to improve the implementation modalities.  ZIMRA is a lot tougher at the beginning in terms of implementation of this measure but over time, when there is order and better compliance, this will be loosened, and then we can quicken the refund process and turnaround time for all the transporters taking their fuel out of the Chirundu Border Post or other borders.

I now turn to an issue regarding fiscal policy in support of the currency.  Madam Speaker, Hon. Mushoriwa raised a point that Zimbabwe's gold currency had not been well supported by fiscal policy which may not be complimentary to monetary policy.  I wish to advise the House that during the 2024 Mid-Term Budget and Economic Review Statement, several fiscal measures were proposed to complement the monetary policy measures and these measures include the following: payment of user fees in local currency; payment of all presumptive taxes in local currency regardless of the currency of trade; payment of corporate tax on a 50/50 basis for corporates whose revenues exceed 50% in foreign currency; payment of customs duty in local currency on selected finished goods.

  So, fiscal measures have been put in place and I must hasten to say we are noticing that the quantum in terms of tax collection, the percentage of taxes that are in domestic currency now stands at 40% and 60% is in USD.  The 40% is quite a doubling of that proportion if you take the situation compared to May when the local component had dropped to as low as 12%, now we are at 40%.  So, we have seen this improvement quite sharply.  In fact, since the mere announcement of this policy, we have seen a shift.

I now turn to tax-free thresholds, Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Ndudzo requested that the tax-free thresholds be raised or pegged to the equivalent of the foreign currency threshold as opposed to local currency.  As previously advised on the issue of pegged local currency tax tables in foreign currency, I wish to advise that our local currency has been stable.  We have noticed some movement of course, of late and therefore, pegging in local currency made a lot of sense when this was done.  I would like us to continue, we will be taking additional measures going forward, maybe sooner than people realise to make sure that our currency is stabilised. 

I now turn to presumptive tax.  Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Ndudzo for applauding the new measures of paying presumptive taxes in local currency as well as broadening the tax base by including beauty parlors, fitness centres and butchery operators.  I wish to advise that the recommendations made by Hon. Ndudzo regarding incorporating other trades under presumptive tax will be considered in due course.  I did not think that perhaps we should immediately rush to add things now, I think we want a very comprehensive review of that list which we can do in two months; we will be here again debating the 2025 Budget.  So, we will have an opportunity soon.

Furthermore, on the issue of presumptive tax payment and non-compliance, I wish to advise the House that the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority is seized with the matter and trying to make sure that there is better compliance in terms of payment of these presumptive taxes.

I would like to respond to a question raised by Hon. Madzivanyika on how 2024 was converted to ZiG.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, as you are aware, we have been operating under a multi-currency regime and even in our planning, we have USD valuables taken into consideration.

The 2024 Budget was prepared using an exchange rate of 1:8 986,07 ZiG to convert to the USD budget.  That is the exchange rate that we used back then.  To this end, the original budget estimate was 58,2 trillion Zimbabwean Dollars, translated to USD, which is 6,4 billion.  To convert to ZiG, the exchange rate used was 13,56 which was the initial exchange rate to the USD and was effected giving a budget of 87,8 billion ZiG.  That is how the conversion was done and it makes a lot of sense, it is quite logical.  The process was to restore the budget value at the time the budget was prepared.  The Budget was approved.

I now turn to the issue of support for youths and women, Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to address a question raised by Hon. Mushoriwa on how Government is supporting youths and women.  The 2024 Budget for the Ministry of Youth Empowerment, Development and Vocational Training is 392,7 million ZiG.  Of this budget, the Treasury has already disbursed 197,3 million ZiG.  This is as of the end of August 2024, which translates to 50% of the budget utilisation. The budget includes 143,4 million ZiG for youth development and empowerment creation programmes.

When it comes to the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, this Ministry received a budget of 168,1 million ZiG. The disbursement as of the end of August 2024 stood at 168,4 million ZiG, which represents 54% of budget utilisation.  These disbursements include support for women's empowerment, gender mainstreaming, and community development of 52,8 million.  So, these two sectors are being supported.

I now turn to an issue raised by, again Hon. Mushoriwa regarding the Financial Adjustment Bill.  He was requesting that this Financial Adjustment Bill be presented before this House but I can assure him that eventually it will be presented before this House.  I want to respond in full in this manner.  In November 2019, the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development tabled the Financial Adjustment Bill (2019) before this august House, seeking condonation for excess expenditures incurred during the financial years 2015 to 2018. 

The Bill included an addition to figures contained in the audited appropriation account payments relating to the settlement of Government obligations through the issues of Treasury bills to suppliers and payments made by the Central Bank on behalf of the Government which had not been included in the audited appropriation accounts. Subsequently, the Public Accounts Committee provided guidance to Treasury to submit amended appropriation accounts from the relevant ministries for validation by the Auditor General enabling consideration of the condonation request by Parliament.  The required documents were submitted to the office of the Auditor General by 31^st of May 2021.  Despite Treasury submitting the necessary documentation to the Auditor-General, the validation process has not yet been concluded.

         On 16 August 2024, the Auditor-General requested further documentation from Treasury.  Treasury is ready with the requested payment vouchers and notify the Auditor-General that additional supporting documents such as requisitions, invoices, receipts and goods, receipts vouchers are to be obtained directly from the respective line ministries to facilitate the completion of the validation exercise.

         The delay in submitting the Condonation Bill to the House of Assembly in compliance to the Public Finance Management Act has been due to the ongoing validation process by the Auditor-General.  Treasury has fulfilled its part by submitting the required documentation under its purview, but the validation exercise cannot be finalised until the Auditor General completes their audit.  Treasury is committed to ensuring full compliance with the Public Finance Management Act and is working closely with Auditor General’s office to expedite the validation process.  Treasury will continue to provide all necessary support to ensure the completion of the audit and will update Parliament on the progress of this matter in due course.

         Madam Speaker, I want to take some of the contributions and questions which were raised today which were not covered through my written response.  Perhaps, I need to pick out one or two points that were raised yesterday before I turn to some of the points that were raised today.  I am actually checking whether I have covered everything that Hon. Mushoriwa raised.  I think I have dealt with the fiscal.  He did raise that the contribution of IMTT tax had dropped as a proportion.  This is correct, this is to do with the increased use of cash in USD and informalisation. We are aware of this and we are taking measures to deal with this.

         I have dealt with the issue of youth and women.  Hon. Mushoriwa again raised an important point which I will really want to advise that as Ministry of Finance, we do not choose which programmes a ministry should implement. Ministries choose their own programmes according to their priorities.  In any case, some of this is contained in the Programme-based Budgeting Approach and we mainly support them in those programmes should they wish to seek our input in that choice. So, we do not choose.  I really wanted to be clear about that.  This is demand driven as opposed to supply driven.

         Again, I am checking if I have covered everything that Hon. Ndudzo raised. Hon. Ndudzo raised an additional issue regarding the Indigenisation Act Amendments.  He is happy with the other sectors that ought to be included, but we bemoan that our enforcement needs to improve. Again, I agree with him, that enforcement needs to improve because we do see foreigners operating in these reserved sectors and we wonder why? Upon cursory investigation, it is clear that there is some corruption taking place where some locals collude with the foreigners and then foreigners are used or rather our own are used as fronts to fake compliance or the other way round, but the issue really is the collusion between locals and foreigners in these business dealings. The foreigners are not entirely guilty on their own.  Some of our locals are also guilty but as I said, this is cursory observation and we have to deal with it to make sure there is better compliance in sector.

         The issue that again he raised, the definition of an artisanal miner. He is correct, but I think this needs to be clear so that we know what artisanal mining is and then we can appropriately put measures or incentives around it.  I think what we have is the Mines and Minerals Bill is on its way to this House. I do not know at what stage but I hear it is about to be gazetted or just been gazetted, so I am assuming that clearly this matter will be dealt with in that Bill.

         Let me turn to today’s contributions starting with Hon. Hungwe who personally made a contribution regarding payment of temporary duty on transit fuel.  Basically, he made a comment that we were not making money from this. Actually, we do not want to make money from this, all we want to do is to kill illicit fraud, people claiming that they have taken fuel to neighbouring countries, but they are just dumping water there and all the fuel is sold locally.  We do not want to make money; we just want to enforce a compliance.

         He also wondered whether if we do not change personnel at these boarders. Are we changing anything because it is the same ZIMRA officials who inspect these goods or fuels as it leaves the country who are still there?  So, will this change anything?  I must say that the issue of temporary duty on fuel is an additional measure. It is not the silver bullet as I said in my earlier response that we are increasing the electronic cargo.  We are installing the electronic cargo tracking system getting more seals improving the system.  We even thought about outsourcing that system out of ZIMRA’s hands and also doing a full IT audit, the ASYCUDA system to make sure that our own officials do not temper with it.  We want to improve its integrity and all that is taking place.  So, we have a cocktail of measures around this illicit behaviour.

         On the issue of monitoring mineral exports, I agree with him.  We always have to be to vigilant to make sure that there is not too much leakage, in fact, we should not allow any leakage frankly.  So, really it is not an easy thing to do, but we will keep monitoring. We need university facilities for SA to make sure that even what is declared in whatever is exported is indeed what the exporter claims it is or there are other additional mining minerals sometimes which are even more valuable than what is being declared.  We want to invest in capacity as Government to improve the SA capacity so that we can get full value.

         On the issue of awareness on the ZiG, I agree and we will seek to do more to increase awareness on the currency.  We can never do enough, we should continue and I think we have been listening to some jingles, and some of them have been very interesting and very comical. I enjoy listening to some of them, but more will be done and the Central Bank and Ministry of Information and Publicity have been at the forefront of promoting our ZiG but more should be done. We are happy with that.

         On the CDF disbursements, yes this has not been disbursed as speedily as they ought to be and my Ministry has actually written to Parliament requesting Parliament to request CDF funds to be disbursed because that is how the system works.  If the demand is not shown, we cannot force money down anybody’s throat. So, what I am doing now, I asked them to request.  So, I have done that.  I am happy to report that the Parliament has actually asked for an equivalent of USD25 million in terms of the amount and we are working on those releases.  I begged with my teams and said, please speed up the releases to Parliament now that the request has come. We know what to do and so we should see some changes in the next few weeks.      

         HON. MUTSEYAMI: Point of order Madam Speaker.

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order Hon. Mutseyami?

         HON. MUTSEYAMI:  May the Hon. Minister please confirm with regard to his just presentation on CDF allocation to the effect that CDF to the Parliament of Zimbabwe could not be disbursed simply because administration at Parliament had not requested CDF to be allocated to Members.  Is that confirmed Madam Speaker, to the attention of the Hon. Minister? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

         THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mutseyami, you want the Hon. Minister to repeat what he said?

         HON. MUTSEYAMI:  To confirm.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF M. NCUBE):  I confirm.  As I said, I thought it was Hon. Moyo but I may have forgotten the name.  He spoke regarding… - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can we allow the Hon. Minister to be heard in silence?

HON. PROF M. NCUBE: He spoke to the issue of the pharmaceutical industry and that we have been obviously desiring to raise revenue, especially post-COVID but perhaps we should differentiate between real medicine that cure people and supplements.  Maybe we should charge higher taxes for supplements.  All these are good ideas but I would not want to rush after receiving this and agree to it.  These ideas need to be analysed properly.  I will take this to our tax experts, Ministry of Finance and ZIMRA to examine the impact of this differentiation.  For now, I think we should move to regularise things, post-COVID will be adequate and perhaps in another two months when we come back, we might have found a solution in terms of this differentiation between real medicines that cure people and supplements that enhance lifestyle.

I now turn to the comment he made about the formal economy being overtaxed and the informal economy being undertaxed – I would not say that the formal economy is overtaxed.  I would say the formal economy is paying its taxes or due.  The informal sector is clearly undertaxed; because of the challenges that we know, they use a lot of cash, there is no proper registration and systems.  This is a constant battle and we want to spend time in making sure that the informal sector can pay its dues.  The statement about under-taxing in the sector is correct.

He also referred to the issue of increasing the use of devices in collecting taxes – human interaction; I agree with you.    We seek to do more in terms of fiscalisation machines including digital connections directly with the ZIMRA system if the machines are not available.  We have that option now and we seek to improve.  We discussed but it has not been fully implemented because of the modalities; we need to learn from others.  This has to do with digital stamps, which is another way to collect taxes better.  It is almost like fiscalisation at the factory floor level to make sure that the manufacturers declare everything that they have manufactured because we want to make sure that there is no leakage.  Other countries such as Uganda are leading the way in Africa.  We want to learn from them so that we can improve our collection methods….

HON. MAPOSA: On a point of order…

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister.  What is your point of order?

HON. MAPOSA:  The Hon. Minister is now responding to what Hon. Ganyiwa said and not Hon. Moyo.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister, the Hon. Member is reminding you that you are now responding to Hon. Ganyiwa’s debate.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you very much.  I have Hon. Ganyiwa now as the next speaker.  Maybe I have spilled over to him – if I could continue.

Hon. Ganyiwa referred to the instability of the country but there is need to stabilise the domestic currency. He noted that we are using two currencies and that 80% of the usage is in USD and 20% is in the domestic currency ZiG.  He emphasised that Government services should be paid in local currency and not in USD.  This is what we exactly proposed in this Bill that the bulk of Government services should be paid for in the local currency.  We are promoting the local currency ahead of the USD.

He even mentioned that perhaps that fuel should be bought in the local currency.  This is a good suggestion.  Because of the shortage of foreign currency, in terms of its availability in the system for availing foreign currency, the inter-bank system, we will not be able to provide enough foreign currency for the sector hence we said you can sell in USD and harness the USD that you need for re-imports or imports from the market.  So, we allowed for the sale of fuel in USD.  We continue to examine this issue to see whether we can recommend otherwise but for now, that is a policy which has enabled us to manage our situation with this forex constraint per issue.  We do have a roadmap in terms of the use of the USD and overtime we will be able to make appropriate announcements.

I now turn to Hon. Khupe who argued passionately about the role of the informal sector.  I will hasten to say to her that – I am using the word ‘informal sector’ because we are all used to it.  I would prefer to say small to medium scale enterprises (SMEs).  These are just small businesses.  It is a very important sector and some of them could do well and be able to export and we should support this sector .  I fully agree that we should assist, whether it is making stalls where the operators can operate from; whether it is incapacitating the SMEs banks that provide them with finance; capacitating the national venture fund further to support them with capital. Women or youth banks if they are driven SMEs.  All of this is support that is needed to make sure that this sector grows and contributes fully to the economy and enhance the national purse. We continue to examine further policies to support this sector and I agree with him.

I now turn to Hon. Nyabani who again made it clear that the local currency should be supported and strengthened.  We should always adopt policies that strengthen local currency and move to a point where even our fuel can be sold in local currency.  We will get there.

He mentioned that we should improve border patrols.  This is never easy.  He said we should buy more drones to patrol borders – we have already bought some.  I launched a surveillance project in Beitbridge and it seems to be working, it is adding value to our surveillance across the borders. All the borders should have drones and we will make sure that by year end this year, all key borders will have drone surveillance support.

Going to the contribution by Hon. Mambipiri, he mentioned that some of the foreign investments in the mining sector are also going into the trucking business, using their own trucks to ferry mining produce across borders for export.  They are squeezing out local truckers and perhaps, this is not fair indeed.  Perhaps, we should come up with a quota system to say that they should allow a certain quantum to also be transported by locals.  Again, this is a suggestion that I will look into, to see if this proposal could be implemented or some other proposal could be implemented to make sure that locals are not crowded out of the trucking sector.

         Again, Hon. Mambipiri, am I getting better?  I hope so.  He mentioned that he is maybe getting confused about the GDP figures, one week we mentioned 21 billion but the following week, we were mentioning 35 billion – this never happened.  It is not possible that we can move from 21 to 35 billion in one week.  So, I agree with him, it is not possible.  In fact, the current GDP official figure is 35 billion – that is what it is.  I think I do not know, he maybe mixing up some of our discussions.  I am aware that he has contributed to this debate before in connection with our external debt and the size of our external debt Madam Speaker Ma’am.  He may have been mixing up a few figures there, but I do not recall GDP being 21 billion in one week and then jumping to 35 billion the following week in our discussions.  I can assure him that our economy is reserved and we thank him for his contribution as an active economic citizen of this country.

         Taking to the low absorptive capacity of the education and the Ministry of Health and Child Care, I have come before this House before and said we are aware that these are critical ministries.  They are the core of our social sector support.  I set up the mechanisms to improve budget utilisation for these ministries where the Deputy Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion and the Deputy Minister of either Education or Health and Child Care, chair a Committee for Budget Utilisation in order to improve the absorptive capacity and budget disbursement for these two ministries.  So, hopefully over time, things will improve.  I hasten to say that when it comes to health, for example, the sugar content in beverages is being targeted for supporting the cancer sector.  You know, procuring cancer machines as well as drugs, we are working closely with the Ministry of Health and Child Care even in getting them to request the resources.  We have resources already ring-fenced and I have instructed my staff not to touch those resources until we procure cancer machines or cancer drugs.

         I now turn to a contribution by Hon. Kangausaru.  First of all, I enjoyed his prophesy and his sermon, his contribution, “mazuva ake ngaawedzerwe”.  He spoke strongly about the need to support the ZiG and the need to continue with the policies that we have adopted, which have given the economy quite a bit of resilience and growth despite some of the challenges.   He made an important point where he said, look when it comes to the issue of defining tax bands, why are we silent on landlords who are feeding off the informal sector?  Why are they not included? They are included but not in that tax band table.  They are included in a different category where we have actually – three years ago, we approved as this august House Madam Speaker Ma’am, that the landlords can be designated as tax collectors, collecting taxes from their tenants if they are operating from a known, legal and verifiable address.  So, there is a presumptive tax to landlords for them to then tax their clients in whatever precinct they are in.  So, they are covered. We will look at it and see if we could do more in this area, but we have tried to do something. 

The need to improve our awareness campaign is critical in terms of the contribution by the informal sector or small and medium enterprises (SMEs), I agree with him to make sure that they pay their fair share like everybody else.  They need to understand the benefits of compliance, benefits of paying your taxes, which are for the benefit of the public and they too are part of that public. 

         I now turn to Hon. Mapiki who made a contribution regarding SMEs that we should make sure that they are properly licenced, we have hawkers’ licences.  Again, this is correct and we will certainly move in this direction.  It is a very good suggestion that we seek to support.

         On beneficiation on the diamond sector, again, he is correct. We have Aurex which is a beneficiation company in the gold and diamond sector to an extent, but people know gold better than diamonds.  Again, they will be supported to make sure that we do more value addition for the diamond sector. 

         In terms of lithium, he went as far as to say look, we produce lithium, we are one of the best producers, why not make a policy that will, let us say, let us manufacture batteries from Zimbabwe and why not?  It is a good thing, I have tried to push this but maybe there may be other ideas within the House.  I approached one, probably the leading battery manufacturer in the world – I cannot mention their name in the House since they are not in the House.  This was in March this year. I said, why not manufacture from Zimbabwe and they said, ‘Minister, we really like the fact that you are a producer of lithium but we need to get to a point, as we beneficiate, where we can produce lithium carbonate and lithium sulphate.  At that stage, the mineral or the chemical is so unstable. We are not so sure that we can create conditions to ensure stability within Zimbabwe’. I said okay, maybe that is a scientific explanation, I am just regurgitating verbatim, telling you what they told me.  They then went on to say; ‘The other issue is reliable power; we need to be sure that there is reliable power and we see that you are having challenges before we decide’.  Then third, they said, ‘The other issue is access to market.  When we take countries in the North of Africa which are basically...’ – they are almost like Southern Europe, I should not mention the countries, but you know the Arab countries in the north of Africa.  ‘They are so close to the key battery vehicle market which is Europe and you as Zimbabweans, you are not.  You are far away and you do not even have a sea port’.   

         It was quite a robust discussion Madam Speaker Ma’am.  So, as I walked away feeling mmm - really to be a viable lithium battery manufacturer that can compete successfully globally, we need to address these issues and find a way of unblocking these bottlenecks.  Perhaps Hon. Mapiki, in a sense was saying that is what we need to deal with, I agree with him that we should explore this, but there are issues that we need to overcome. I now need to perhaps, address the issue about being open for business but not for looting.  Again, he was emphasising the need to beneficiate to ensure we get maximum value from our exports.  We reduce leakages in the gold sector. He mentioned this and the licences by way for the buying, sometimes they are too long.  Maybe we need to raise this and even differentiate between the licensing for locals in Zimbabwe and licences for foreigners. All these are ideas that we will explore in future.

         The last point, I guess he talked about something to do with the cost of drugs that let us try to make sure that drugs are affordable to our citizens who need them badly to support their health.  I tried hard to really cover quite a bit of what was discussed yesterday and today.  I would like to move that this Bill be read a second time so that we can proceed to Committee Stage, obviously taking in to account the Parliamentary Legal Committee comments on the Bill.  We can go Clause by Clause and I think that if we delay, I know that there are interesting things we discussed, if we can seek your indulgence so that we make progress.  In another two months, we are back here debating the full Finance Bill for the budget of 2025.  I thank you. I move that the Bill be read a second time.

         Motion put and agreed to.

         Bill read a second time.

         Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.

COMMITTEE STAGE

FINANCE (2024) BILL [H. B. 8, 2024]

         House in Committee.

         Clauses 1 to 5 put and agreed to.

         On Section 6:

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Hon. Chair – Stupid! –

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MACHINGURA): Order Hon. Members! Who called out stupid?

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I am the one who called him stupid for his stupid remark – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Molokela-Tsiye, that is unparliamentary [HON. MOLEKELA-TSIYE: His behaviour was unparliamentary, it was stupid.] –  Hon. Molokela-Tsiye!

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: He behaved like a stupid Parliamentarian, he is the one who started first, he behaved like a stupid Parliamentarian, stupid!

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Molokela-Tsiye, please leave the House.

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I want to debate; I am the one who was victimised. I am the one who was attacked.

         HON. HWENDE: Point of order!

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?

         HON. HWENDE: My point of order is, which Standing Order are you….

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Sit down Hon. Hwende please. I am asking you to sit down – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.]- Did you take note of my point of order?

         HON. HWENDE: Yes, Hon. Chair. I want to withdraw that I called the Hon. Member stupid. 

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Hon. Minister, I am objecting to this clause because this clause assumes that you have the capacity as Treasury, to effect this tax system. If you look, for example, on informal traders…

         HON. ZIKI: On a point of order.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order Hon. Ziki?

         HON. ZIKI: I do not think it will be okay to let him contribute when you have ordered him out – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members! What are you saying Hon. Ziki?

         HON. ZIKI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not think it will be fair for you to allow him to defy your order. You asked the Hon. Member to leave the House and he should leave the House.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Ziki, there was a correction there and that is why I did not persist asking him to leave, okay. Hon. Molokela please proceed.

         HON. MUGWADI: On a point of order Hon. Speaker!

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mugwadi, what is your point of order?

         HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Hon. Speaker for the opportunity to raise a small point of order to the effect that Hon. Speaker, this is an august House and you are the Chair.  As such, the use of uncouth, derogatory and utterly unparliamentary language such as stupid; honestly for an Hon. Member to be allowed to continue to speak in this House having used that language even if you have the discretion to employ your sympathies, Hon. Speaker, it makes a shameful presentation of this august House with due respect.  Otherwise Members from this House, if they start employing that language, remember we are the majority and if we get away with it, it will not auger well.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mugwadi, thank you very much.  The Hon. Member has withdrawn those words and that is why he is still in the House.  What Hon. Mugwadi has said…

         HON. DR. MUTODI: Hon. Chair, in these circumstances, a Member can ask you to divide the House over the issue concerned and I so ask.

         Hon. DR. Mutodi was asked to approach the Chair.

         HON. CHIGUMBU: Point of order!

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I am still concentrating on Hon. Molokela-Tsiye's issue.  If it is the Chair’s ruling please…

         HON. CHIGUMBU: It is not that Mr. Speaker.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is it now?

         HON. CHIGUMBU: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. According to the rules, if you rule on a matter, no one should rise on the same matter again. I just want to remind people on your right that this is not a ZANU PF Parliament - [HON. MEMBERS: inaudible interjections.]-

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Aaah no Hon. Member.  Hon. Molokela has understood what is happening and I am giving the floor to Hon. Molokela.

         HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Hon. Chair, I was saying that I am objecting to this clause on the issue of practicability.  If you look at A, it says informal traders other than those referred to in paragraph J, M and L calculated at the rate of equivalent of 10% of the monthly rentals from which they operate.  The Treasury does not have the capacity, administratively, to administer such a system where they can actually collect 10% of monthly rental from every informal trader in Zimbabwe.  That is not realistic and that is not practical.  We cannot approve such an impossible process.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman.  I thank Hon. Molokela for that contribution.  We did a survey and consulted widely on this issue and we were informed that these high presumptive taxes contained in Clause 6 were discouraging compliance and what we ought to do is to reduce these presumptive taxes.  So, we then consulted further to get to this level.

         HON. ZVAIPA:  On a point of order!

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?

         *HON. ZVAIPA: Can the Minister speak up, we cannot hear him.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Raise your voice a bit.

         HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Mr. Chairman, we consulted on this matter - the industry and all the players and we were informed as Treasury and ZIMRA that the reason why we are seeing a low revenue from presumptive taxes is because the taxes themselves were too high.  We were trying to over-tax economic agencies.  So, we said, let us reduce these tax levels and what you see in paragraph six is a proposal to reduce the presumptive tax in order to improve compliance.  Actually, we want to do exactly what Hon. Molokela is proposing, which is to improve compliance.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Minister, thank you for your response but did you answer his question on whether you have the capacity to collect this tax.

         HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have the capacity to collect and reduction in the levels will improve compliance and willingness to comply.

         *HON. HWENDE: I want to deal with “J”.  Operators of hair dressing salons have to pay $30 US dollar. I think Minister, you are now targeting the poor of the poorest.  For someone who is renting a chair, it is a lot of money.  Most of them pay on average $100 to the saloon owners and if you take into consideration what they are earning per month, this is not affordable.  Maybe what you could do if you insist on taxing them, is to make sure that they pay also the 10% which everyone else is paying. Thirty dollars to one who is renting a chair is too much. That is my submission.

         HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I do accept that saloons vary in size. For instance, where I go in Borrowdale, I cut my hair twice a month and I pay $20 for the haircut.  That is what I do. So, per month I pay $60 as one individual but I am not the only one but it is a big saloon.  There are some who are small, so it is possible that $30 maybe too high but then we would have to go deeper to really try to differentiate according to size.  It gets very complex.  So, being a presumptive tax, we just came up with a figure that we thought on average would be affordable but there is no reason why these cannot be reviewed in future.  All we are trying to do here is come up with something that the market itself proposed.  Most of these rates Mr. Chairman, are a result of consultation with the various sectors themselves to see at what level they will be comfortable.  So, we did not just dream of these figures but we actually worked with industries in question.  If there is further work to be done, we will be able to do further work but we wanted to start somewhere before that further work is done.  I thank you.

*HON. HWENDE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. The challenge is that when the budget is in the hands of a person who is not living in the community, how many people get their haircut at USD20? Who will pay that USD20 for haircut? The average barber, if you come to Kuwadzana you pay USD2. Some are even charging a dollar to have a haircut. If it is a dollar, you need 30 people to make USD30 and every tuckshop in Kuwadzana is a barber shop. So, the money that you are getting, you will pay. If you can pay USD20, because what you are earning and what we are earning is different.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MACHINGURA): Hon. Hwende, I heard the Minister saying that it is a new system.

An Hon. Member having stood up

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, I am addressing Hon. Hwende. He is saying, we will keep on reviewing until we get to a level ground. Where I did not get your question is when the Minister answered and the way you asked when the Minister was referring to a saloon. He is referring to a building, but it seems you are referring to a person who is renting a chair and is paying USD30. I do not know whether my view is the same.

*HON. HWENDE:  The issue under is that they rent a chair for USD30 per month. It refers to people who are renting a chair and my submission to the Hon. Minister is that he should revert to the 10% that is applicable to everyone. This is because it will certainly lower the contribution for a barber who is cutting hair in Kuwadzana because they hardly make USD30. So, he loses nothing by returning to the 10% that is applying to all other informal traders. That is my humble opinion Hon. Chair.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I want to thank Hon. Hwende for that contribution. The percentage approach is very difficult and tricky to implement because we are not able to adequately track the turnover of the business operator. That is our challenge. It is easier to set a flat fee once you know where they are and you come and collect, ignore their turnover, but it is at a percentage. You really have to be sure that what they are giving you in terms of turnover is correct. It is more work and it is not easily verifiable. This is cleaner than the percentage approach.

*HON. HWENDE: Since we are trying, let us peg it at 10% per month so that we accommodate the barber in Kuwadzana. By the time we do the main budget, find a way of taxing higher your USD20 per head for a barber in Borrowdale. For now, to protect the majority of people who are renting a chair, who are in high density areas and our growth points, I think we want to propose that we reduce it to USD10 and then we see how it goes. Thank you.

*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I do not know whether the Minister is paying attention. The idea that a chair pays USD10 is much better than USD30. As Hon. Hwende alluded to, you find that in Dangamvura for example, Busby, kids get a hair cut for 50 cents, dollar for two. So, it is okay that we peg it at USD10 and a lot of them comply and they pay. If it is pegged at USD30, a lot of people will resist. You will not get the USD30 and you will not get the USD10. Let us start with a small fee so that people get used that you as a barber you have to pay USD10. We start from there and we go further instead of pegging the charges high. It is too high in locations. People are getting married for USD30.

*HON. J. TSHUMA: Hon. Chair, I want to concur with what Hon. Hwende and Hon. Mutseyami put across for the Minister’s consideration. I want to further bring down that figure to USD5 per chair. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- Honestly speaking, if we overtax these people, they are already in problems and like what Hon. Mutseyami submitted, you are better off collecting those USD5 from all those people. This is because with USD5, they will easily comply and you get that money into the revenue. If you start putting USD10 and USD30, that is when you find people running away dodging the system and you end up getting nothing at all. Let us make it easy for our people. Thank you.

*HON. MUDUMI: Thank you Hon. Chair for affording me this opportunity. I want to concur with the former speaker. Your tax is very good but most of the people in the urban centres like in Masvingo, the money that they charge is 50 cents and a dollar. So, if they are required to pay USD30, it means that we have the challenge of people running away evading tax. If it is pegged at USD5 or USD3, with the numbers, you will realise more. It will be easy for people and they will be happy to pay tax. Our plea to the Minister is that we accept the tax, but it should be lowered so that people love to pay tax because of its target. In the rural areas or in locations, they can realise USD50 per month for running a barber shop.

         *HON. NYABANI: In the big shops what have we done before we target the small shops for $5.00?

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Nyabani, what you are saying is very good, but it is not the issue under discussion.  What we are saying is should barbers pay $30.00 or should it come down?

         *HON. TSITSI ZHOU: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think it is very important that we look at our surrounding areas.  I agree with those who are saying that some get less money but we have people running hair salons, who are giving each other $1 000 per month for mukando and they are doing a lot of things without paying any tax.  People are in different grades.  If you are saying we want to enlarge our tax base so that we get the money, that will boost our budget, I propose $35.00 or $25.00.

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Honourable, before you debate, I want to let you know that if a Member is debating, you sit down.  I can see that you really wanted to debate, next time do not do that.

         *HON. MASVISVI: Hon. Chair, the issue is targeting the hairdresser or barber, which had a proposal from the Minister of $30.00.  From our view as representatives of the people, we think it is too high.  We propose that $3.00 to $5.00 is an acceptable amount.  Secondly, where I want our Minister to understand is that these people trade under the local authorities and they are also being charged services and rates when they are running their businesses.  So, we appeal to the Minister to consider, downwards from $30.00 to $3.00 per month. 

         *HON. MAKAMURE: Thank you Mr. Chairman –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] – I need your protection Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of noise.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order! Hon. Members, can the Member be heard in silence?

         *HON. MAKAMURE: The amount that has been suggested for salons and barbers is too high.  Most of the people engaging in those businesses are our youths.  So, to say they should pay $30.00 for tax is too much because there are a lot of things that they pay.  Some of them are renting the premises they are working from.  I think it should come down, even to $2.00.

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: It seems like you are all talking about the same thing that the money should come down. I think I should call the Minister to respond.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman.  I also thank the Hon. Members for their contributions and for their desire that this amount be reduced.  Mr. Chairman, it has already been reduced.  The original figure that I had proposed before this proposal was actually $300.00.  So, we reduced it to $30.00.  So, I really want to propose that we continue with $30.00, but I undertake that we do further analysis because sitting here to agree to $5.00, $10.00 and so forth, without proper analysis is not the proper way to do it, especially to arrive at a specific figure for taxation purposes.  Rather, we accept the $30.00 having reduced from $300.00, then we can come back after two months in November to look into this issue more thoroughly.  That is what I really request Hon. Members.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Is there any objection to what the Minister proposed?

         *HON. ENG. MHANGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I have seen the Minister is not understanding some of us who come from the locations.  There are a lot of things that we come across.  Minister, the hairdresser from Borrowdale you have referred to, works the whole day and people will be coming but for those in Cold Stream, she waits for people to come from work just for an hour or two hours.  These days there is problems with electricity outages and he only realises money during school openings, which is normally $1.00 for two people.  For the whole week, he does not attend to anyone, he might get five or six people.  These days, people we are talking about also need drought relief, they cannot even afford food. So, Hon. Minister, I am encouraging you that before you put a figure, can you go around our locations, like in Cold Stream, then you come up with a figure?

         HON. S. SAKUPWANYA: Thank you Chair.  I want to say that the Minister must take note of the fact that when we are dealing with such a tax, we must not only look at it from a point of view of revenue collection. We must also look at it as a participation from the citizens of Zimbabwe.  If you are going to get someone who is a local barber from Rusape, that person must feel it is also their responsibility to contribute to the fiscus. Therefore, we must not punish them.  Thirty dollars feels like a punishment, in which case we will have to then send people to police to collect that amount of money.

 When it comes to revenue collection, we must create a culture in which the citizen must feel that they can contribute freely and in such a way that it must not be punitive.  So, may the Minister seriously consider reviewing this amount to $5.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Order, order!  Hon. Members, please switch off your microphones.  It is only the Hon. Member who I would have recognised who should put their microphone on because you will disturb the system.  The Minister has got something to say.  I will give this opportunity to the Minister. 

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Chair for your indulgence.  I thank the Hon.  Members for their unanimous contributions in the same direction.  I have also consulted my technical team and we have agreed that we reduce this tax to $10 per chair per month – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Order Hon. Members, order!  Hon. Mushoriwa order! – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –  Order!  We are debating.  We are still going, no problem.

*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Mr. Chair.  This debate has come up with proposals of a lot of figures.  The Minister also has his own proposals. We are not dealing with a homogeneous group.  There are some who get more money and some who do not get a lot of money.  So, we should work on average, but looking at it we have drought.  I am representing the women constituency and women are the ones who are in the informal trade.  I have worked my maths and I think that the $10 that the Minister has come up with is okay – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members! The Minister wants to say something.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. NCUBE): Thank you Chairman, I have consulted further.  I have listened to the contribution of Members, both in their contributions as they seek to the floor but also in their noise as well, when they do not have the floor. I consulted my team at the back and I proposed that we take this down to USD8 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members!  Please, switch off your mics.  Order Hon. Members, order! I am still going to allow some debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members.  When I say order, you must sit down.

*HON. GANYIWA: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think with this opportunity, I am going to represent everyone who wants to contribute on this issue of taxes which has been proposed for barbers and hairdressers. I think USD8 is a lot.  Why am I saying that?  A barber and a person who runs a grinding mill are the same. If you look at what Hon. Sakupwanya has said, I think we should come up with a law to make them comply, then you can review it further. USD5 is a fair charge because people will end up having their hair being done at home.  We want to discourage people from operating from home in evasion of tax. I think it should be reduced to USD5.

I am coming from the point that the Minister has proposed 300. At school, if you do long division, you will be asked to show the working. Three dollars, where is it coming from? Where was he getting it from? From a person who is running a barber shop, for it to be 30, how much are they realising? We are saying USD5 is a fair charge because they are fending for their families and parents at home. Thank you.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, the rules of the House say, when the Speaker says order, you all take your seats.  That is the rule.

*HON. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Chair. The issue in our midst is, why have we reduced ourselves to target people who are working under a tree, for them to pay USD5? I think, let us go back to what Hon. Nyabani has said.  Why do we not target those who are engaging in mining, who are keeping their money at home? Why do we not go and get money from there? I think the money that we are talking of, the one thousand or two thousand, we can get it from one Chinese guy. Why do we not target the Chinese and leave our people?

We are talking of El Nino every day and people are looking for money to buy food for their families. For us to follow them so that they part with USD5, they are not realising it per week. I think if it was possible, we should set that aside, following saloons and leave them alone. If we keep on proposing figures, it is like we are in trouble. Let us leave the hairdressers alone and target where we are getting a lot of revenue.

Chair, you were not listening and I am proposing that and I am repeating, we should leave the hairdressers alone. We will not go back to constituencies where we come from because those are the people who support us.  So, do not touch those areas. Let us target those who are keeping away money from us and leave the hairdressers alone.

*HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Hon. Chair…

HON. G. HLATYWAYO: Point of order Chair.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?

HON. G. HLATYWAYO: Hon. Chair, this side, we have been standing up for a long time and you have been recognising Members from the right side. Please, we also want to contribute to this discussion.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable.  I have noted your point of order, but I said I am doing it in a round like this. I am coming that side.

*HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Mr. Chair. I do not have much on this issue, but I am pleading that I will get the attention of the Minister of Finance, Hon. Ncube. We have been engaging each other for a long time and many a times we would reach an agreement, which is a good thing. It is important that we can go round and round, but we should come to an agreement. There are a lot of things and this issue should not be stopped by anything. The Members of Parliament are not agreeing with the idea because the people that we represent, we know that they cannot pay the money that you are proposing.  I want to promise you as the Member of Parliament from the right side, even if we want to agree with you on this issue, I do not see our President, His Excellency, E. D. Mnangagwa agreeing with you.  What we are saying in this House is we are happy because we know that up there, the person who sent us wants us to represent the wishes of the people. 

         Let me say Hon. Minister, yes you have referred that you had proposed USD $300 tax for their saloons, let us go back.  Members in this House, the money that has entered into their accounts today is US$280.  I am doing a comparative analysis, which means the Members of Parliament and those who run saloons get more than what Members of Parliament get.  It does not auger well that the tax being paid by barbers is more than what an MP is getting.  We agree that the car loans for MPs was US$60 000, but we ended up agreeing that it should come to US$50 000.  So for now, instead of wasting a lot of time with a Bill that is very important, the tax for hairdressers and barbers should come back to US$5.  We know these people and we do not want them to be up in arms with us.  I know that the one who is up there knows the status of the people that we represent.  So, let us agree and move forward – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

         *HON. HAMAUSWA:  Thank you Hon. Chairperson for giving me this opportunity to add my voice, just a few words.  I want to start with the conclusion, Hon. Minister Prof. Ncube will hear our cry.  Firstly, the barbers were not even supposed to pay tax.  If you look at these barbers, most of them are operating from not so good places.  If you look at our Government, it does not have a plan for those people to get proper places to operate from.  If you visit those people, the barbers, you feel sorry because they do not have good places where they are operating from. 

         I also want to say that there is a challenge that as Members of this House – repeating what the previous speaker has said that Members from the opposition and ruling parties have seen taxes being raised, not doing anything, but today we have united.  I think the Hon. Minister should accept it that the MPs who are representing the people - now we are getting messages from our constituents that Honourable, if you agree do not come back.  You find that if we agree Hon. Members will not have haircuts – I will say that if the Hon. Minister Professor Ncube does not agree to bring down the taxes, I think the Hon. Minister Professor Ncube should resign because he would have refused to hear the cry of people.  If we keep quiet, that challenge will continue, that is what led the war veterans to go and fight.

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Hamauswa, we hear what you are saying but we do not want you to spoil the debate, we do not want you to target the Minister’s job.  I think just ask for what you want and that the Minister should also hear your plea.

         *HON. HAMAUSWA:  Thank you Hon. Chairperson, sorry if I had gone out of line, but it is because I have a passion so that you hear the heart of the people that we represent.  They ask us what we are doing if we approve these taxes.

         In conclusion, if he does not know what is happening, we can make an appointment so that we go to where the Chinese are operating.  They are refusing the ZiG but only taking the US dollar.  Until the Hon. Minister of Finance is able to convince the Chinese to accept ZiG - because the Chinese are not accepting ZiG, until and unless they accept ZiG in their shops, then we can allow the barbers to pay even a dollar.  I think the money should be brought back to US$5, if he does not do that, we are not going to pass this. 

         *HON. MUREYANI: Thank you for affording me the opportunity to add my voice on the debate that hairdressers should pay.  People who are into dressmaking do not make a lot of money.  They need to look after their families because the families that we have need to make a living, we should not oppress them to pay US$8.  If you do so, we will be doing the wrong thing, I believe US$5 will be a reasonable amount. 

         HON. BAJILA:  Thank you so much Chairperson.  I want to draw the Minister to the COVID-19 period where saloons and barbershops closed because of the lockdowns.  The owners of those buildings lost income because no one was now coming to pay rentals.  For myself, my barber was now coming home to do his work on myself and my family, the same with the ladies who do the hairstyles for women, they were now moving around.  I am simply saying if we continue with these exorbitant taxes that we want to impose, the barbers and the saloon people will go digital. They will advertise digitally and do what they call house calls.  A shaving machine is very small, it is not heavy, they can move from this door to this one to do their job.

However, at the end of the day, the Government will not get revenue from the owners of the buildings where they are currently working.  So, we must not chase people out of the places where they are currently working.  If all the powers were vested in me, they would pay nothing and they would continue to operate without any further tax that is going to be put on them.

If the Hon. Minister insists that we need to increase our tax basket, surely two dollars would do.  If we were too far, we cannot go as far as five dollars because this is a livelihood for people.  Hon. Mugwadi correctly showed how this would look like if the Minister were to go to his original proposal of 200 dollars that those who work per seat would have to pay tax that can amount to the salary of a Member of Parliament at the end of the month.  It will not work.

 We know there are situations and we know that once we chase them out, they are going to use digital means and they are going to operate from outside buildings, we are going to lose possible income as a Government and the owners of those buildings will also lose on their rentals.  Mr. Speaker Sir, let us go with the two dollars tax.  I thank you.

         *HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Hon. Chair.  My considered view is different from other Hon. Members who spoke before me. However, like the previous speaker has said, what is oppressing the owners of this country are people of Chinese origin who take money after working in Zimbabwe without banking the money in the Zimbabwe banking system, they do not want their money in circulation.   They are not developing this country.

 If you look at a worker who is employed by Chinese companies, he is unable to pay any money to a barber who asks for two dollars because the wages that they get are not sufficient. Therefore, I request that there are so many ways to kill a cat.  Meaning there are other avenues that we can get money without oppressing the Zimbabwean citizen.  There are a lot of Zimbabweans who are very rich and who have their means.  Hon. Minister, if you walk along the road Lomagundi, now Nemakonde Road where these car sales were removed, they have relocated to other locations, you will see state-of-the-art vehicles that are in the range of 50 000 to 100 000 US dollars  Tax those people. 

Some people are in the city, there are people who use the money to go around and get money from those people. If you go out of every province, some people are busy dealing in foreign currency, they are not paying any tax to anyone.  If we look at the black-market rate which is now at 38; we have had our salaries today, can the ZiG be used?  Can I go to the barber that you are talking about? You need to revisit these issues because the people that you are taxing look at their disposable income.  As a family, how much do they have to sustain themselves? Are they within the poverty datum line? Can they sustain a living?  We are adding a lot of havoc in the communities because if a person is no longer working in the saloon, they will go into commercial sex work.  Our young boys and girls are looking for means and ways to sustain themselves. 

When we talk of those who are disabled, it drives to the core of my heart, I become emotional about it.  The majority of them sell airtime on the road and they are sitting in wheelchairs.  Those who were trained at Jairos Jiri institution, if you tax them which means 10 dollars, will they be able to sustain themselves? It would not work out.  Do not tax them, tax them nothing, that is my plea.  I thank you.

         +HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you very much Hon. Chair.  Hon. Minister, it is very painful if you can look for a person who is sitting in a wheelchair.  If you can take note that person is paying school fees and is paying rentals and is renting that wheelchair as well.  They also pay rentals to their landlords, vehicle insurance, Nyaradzo funeral assurance and then you come here into this august House and request for 10 dollars tax because you think that person is making a lot of money.

My question is, are you done with the business people who have got a lot of money like the Chinese and those who are sending their children to elite schools and yet these are not even paying school fees because the money is not enough?  I request that we should stand with the five-dollar tax and this august House is supporting this five-dollar tax.  I also support this five-dollar tax.   Let us start to deal with those who sell cars and those Chinese who go and make money in different places around the country.  I thank you.

         HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO: This is a very emotive discussion Hon. Chairperson.   It is emotive because as the people’s representatives, we stay with the people and we know the challenges that ordinary citizens are facing.         Ordinary citizens are facing enormous economic challenges to be specific.  It is becoming very difficult for citizens to live.  There is a principle called tax justice, I am sure the Hon. Minister is aware of this principle.  We cannot be going to people who are already facing challenges, enormous challenges like I have already said and continuously tax them, when we know that there are people who are earning much more in terms of outcome and we are not going after those people. 

         I am of the view that we should not go after these hairdressers and barber shops.  We should remove this proposal that you have put before the House because of the principle of tax justice.  We should go for wealthier members of society if we want to enhance our domestic mobilisation of resources. 

So, I would want to urge you Hon. Minister to understand where we are coming from as Members of Parliament, the people’s representatives because we know the situation.  This year we are talking about a drought, people are already focusing resources to fend for their families to get food and we are talking about putting more burdens on the citizens of Zimbabwe. I would want you to understand the circumstances that ordinary citizens are facing and remove this tax.  If there is a need, maybe we can then go for the five dollars or two dollars that has been suggested by fellow Members.  I thank you.

 

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):  I have listened carefully to the debate and the contributions from both sides of the House and also consulted my technical team.  I agree with the sentiments of the majority of this House that this tax be set at USD5. I thank you.

         HON. MUSHORIWA:  Thank you so much and thank you to the Minister for the concession that he has done in respect to the saloons.  Mr. Chair, if you then see under this clause, there are also other small-scale entrepreneurs and in the same spirit that the Hon. Minister has actually reduced monies for hair saloons, I also then propose that the presumptive tax on tax operators that has been put at …

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What location is that in the document?

         HON. MUSHORIWA:  We are dealing with Clause 6.  I am starting with (c).

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Order, order!  You had earlier on accepted all these other things and we were on (j), is it not it?

         HON. MUSHORIWA:  We debate clause by clause Mr. Chairman.  So, this is the clause that we are still on.  I am taking on (c), that the amount of money that is paid by tax operators be also reviewed down from USD35 per tax to about USD10.  Then you go to D, we reduce also from USD50 for those vehicles that have got 14 passengers to about USD15.  Operators of minibuses who were said to pay USD60 per minibus also be reduced to about USD20.  Then operators for an omnibus which has got more that 60 passengers which was said to be USD80 per month be also reduced to USD20.

         Then you also look at the other issue Mr. Chairman, if you look at the quantum of amounts that are being charged for those that ferry goods using their own lorries, for less than 20 tonnes being said per vehicle, they have to be charged USD200 per month.  I actually think that it has to be reduced to about USD50.  Then we go cumulatively downwards. Then we also go to the driving schools, it is proposed that one vehicle for Class 4 be charged USD50 per month, I actually think that money needs also to be reduced further.  The same thing applies to some of these, even the question of those that do massages, those that operate restaurants and butcheries.  Butcheries are being said that if you operate a butchery, no matter where you operate it, you are supposed to then also be paying sufficient.  So, I am actually proposing that those monies also need to be reduced and it is within the spirit upon which the Minister is considered on hair saloons.  I think it should also apply to all the other sectors.  I thank you.

         HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  Thank you Chair.  I think honestly like Hon. Mushoriwa has put it, in the interest of saving time and to be progressive, I move that we, as a House, consider to reduce the other remaining 23 sub-sectors of the informal sector by 60% so that we move with speed to regularise everything on time unlike to look at each individual because there are 24 items for us to say, look at backyard industry, let us do this, can we just use a simple proportion.  For example, just reduced by 50% or 60% and as much as we are agreeing, I move that we reduce by 60% for the sake of saving our time.

         HON. TIMBURWA:  Thank you Chair.  I would like to appreciate what the Minister has done to take cognisant of our suggestions we are giving in this House and reducing the price to USD5 like he highlighted.  That is a noble cause and we appreciate that.  Then also we should also be cognisant that we are the ones who suggested the taxation of the informal sector. In as much as we are complaining to a certain extend, we should also understand that we, as a people, should submit or pay our taxes so that we can be able to do the service delivery that is required by the same citizens we are talking about.  Thank you.

         *HON. MUGWADI:  Let me start by thanking our wise Minister.  There are very few of you that are in your league.  I thank you for being a listening Minister because the President always says the voice of the people is the voice of God. Halleluiah!  So, I want to thank you.

         Let me come to the issue that has been raised by an Hon. Member of the other side of the House on the taxes.  I want to add my view by saying that in my own personal capacity, I cannot come here and talk on behalf of those that have driving schools. Those with business school trucks and taxis need to pay taxes. We should not behave as if we are fools by saying that tax should not be paid.

         Let me go further and say that Mr. Chairman, you should take care of your cattle in order to reap something out of it.  A lot of issues were now being raised over allowances and other issues. If you have haulage trucks, lorries and those with driving schools are Hon. Members in this particular House, we are aware of that fact.  We should not come and defend our businesses.  We have finished with the ordinary people and dealing with barbers and in my personal capacity as Mugwadi, you must pay tax to the Government.

         HON. GUYO:  Thank you Hon. Chair.  I want to agree with Hon. Mugwadi that taxes should be paid, but I would also want to say through you Mr. Chair, the issue of transporters, if its 20 tonnes and above, to pay USD50 and above, USD500 per month.  We would want to ask the Minister if it is based on the invoice or what because there is no business.  Mr. Mugwadi, may speak from a person who does not have even a single haulage truck but I know he has just graduated.  There is no business out there.  If it were possible, the taxation should be based on invoices to see if the person has been working.  You want someone to pay USD550, they will carry a load to Mutare and for two, three weeks or two months. They may fail to get a load back to Harare and the Government expects that person to pay USD550.  Where would that person get the money from?  I thank you.

         *HON. HWENDE:  You were doing quite well.  Are you looking at both sides now Mr. Chairperson?

         HON. MUTOKONYI: I think what is actually important is to think from the objective that as a nation, what is our objective?  What do we want to achieve?  It is very clear that we need to mobilise our resources from within the domestic resources.  So, I concur with the previous speakers, particularly on ensuring that we need to look on this tax position from scenario to scenario. We need to look at it specifically because at the end of the day, like right now, all Parliamentarians here are waiting for the CDF funds.  That has to come from the domestic resources.  So, if we do not discuss and agree that, we need to ensure that we get these resources here, we are going to have another problem.  The Hon. Minister is very clear on that.  What we need to do is that we have agreed on that five dollars.  Let it happen because remember last time here we have been talking about this formalisation of the informal sector.  So, it is going to be a process.  It is not an event.  Let us kick start the process because if we kick start the process, we then see how it goes and it is the same Parliament which will sit down here and amend the laws.  At the end of the day, we are building our country as our President rightfully says, nyika inovakwa nevene vayo. 

         So, we need to come up with the policies that ensure continuity in terms of ensuring that our country moves forward.  Let us look on case by case as we go.  Otherwise, at the end of the day, we want more resources from the domestic resources given that the country is still sitting in sanctions, we said that we should not skip thinking or talking about sanctions, but it is a fact that sanctions are there.  So, the budget has to be funded domestically.  Thank you.

         *HON. HWENDE:  Thank you very much Mr. Chairperson.  The speed that we had was to assist the people who are suffering before we went to those business owners.  We have an item on care that touches on the livelihoods of the people that is now being overshadowed by these issues that are now being discussed.  We have the issue of informal cross border traders.  You are saying 20% should be charged for commercial goods being imported.  If you look back at the barbers and the hair dressers, they are only jobs that we have at the high density and the locations where we come from.  It is the barbers, the hair saloons and cross borders that go across the border to get goods and resell at lower levels.  These are the same people that we are giving money at this august House.  The money that we are using to buy food for people because they cannot afford to feed themselves as a result of the drought.  So, if you ask them to pay 20% of the value of the goods they are importing, it is excessive.  May you reduce that amount so that the majority of the people that are into cross border trading can survive?    

         *HON. CHIGUMBU: I want to deal with the issue that our Minister of Finance as a Professor and they are known for coming up with sound research when coming up with these decisions.  The barbers and the cross borders that we are talking about are people that went to school, they are degreed.  They are doing these pieces of work not because they are lucrative, but they are doing it to survive.  The reason why they have done that is because the economy is not allowing them to eke out a living.  We should not use an axe on these people.

         As Government, I urge you Hon. Minister to go to areas like Budiriro or Hopley and see how the people are surviving so that when you come up with decisions, you will make informed decisions based on data.  He had to think that at one time, you had to ask for US$300.  What was the justification for you to get to US$300? 

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Hon. Chigumbu, order!  That issue is now water under the bridge.  Please take a sit.   

         *HON. CHIGUMBU: I would want to come back to the point you want to make.

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Please go there to your point and resume your sit.

         *HON. CHIGUMBU: So, what it means is that, what is the basis of these decisions.  Is it based on empirical evidence?  There are a lot of things that are going to happen in terms of commuter omnibus operators.  The spares are expensive.  If you raise these taxes, you will also see that the person who is going to ride on a kombi will pay more.  The kombi operators are going to fail to repair the kombis and there will be more accidents on the roads.  Are you using data to make these clearances Professor?  That is where my question is.  I thank you.

         +HON. RITTA MPOFU: My point of order is that, I have been quiet for some time.  I think that what is being mentioned by the Hon. Member - we have now passed that point.  We have agreed that people are suffering outside there.  We have also agreed that people should pay five dollars.  If we keep backtracking, please let us all be mature and be in one spirit.  If we are going to pass our Bill, we make sure we go through. 

         We also agreed, both parties, that we want the tax to be pegged at five dollars.  Please let me not say a lot before I end up spoiling what I have said.  Let us be united so that the people who elected you can also respect us.  Thank you.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions.  I would also really appreciate the togetherness and unanimity around Clause 6 (J) regarding the hair saloons.  We agreed on five dollars and I am pleased that we have all agreed.  I therefore re-suggest that we accept the rest.  We can always come back in two months’ time to reflect on some of the areas but for now, I really propose that we proceed as agreed.  I thank you.

HON. HWENDE: Chairperson, I want to debate. 

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: No more debate. Let us move forward. 

         HON. HWENDE: No, it is an important point.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What point Hon. Hwende?

*HON. HWENDE: I am in agreement with this proposal, but I want us to consider the issue of ZiG.  Our intention for the ZiG, if we say the taxes for the ZiG, what are we saying in terms of the ZiG?  It should reach the people.  We have several categories.  We were saying people should pay in ZiG.

         My proposal is that all these taxes must also be paid in ZiG so that the ZiG gets to the people and that people can pay taxes in ZiG. I thank you.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):  Mr. Chairman, we have always allowed that, that is not a problem. We are in a multicurrency regime, that is not a problem at all. I thank you.   

         HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  Further debate, Mr. Chairman!

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  No more supplementary, no more points of order, let us proceed. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

HON. MADZIVANYIKA:   On a point of priviledge Mr. Chairman. 

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  What is your point of privilege?

HON. MADZIVANYIKA:   Thank you Mr. Chairperson.  My point of privilege goes to the issue that we are discussing on paragraph 470 of the Mid-Term Budget Review which relates to the clause that we are talking about.   

I wanted to get leave that the Hon. Minister responds on the proposal that we reduce all other categories which are not hair saloons with about 50% so that we do not waste time looking at each and every item. Secondly, the issue of 20% of the GDP value for duty purposes for informal traders, Hon. Chairman, I think it is very difficult to establish how much that person imported at, not only that Hon. Chairman, you will find that when someone imports, the value for duty purposes including the cost of buying that item in a foreign land plus transport charges, plus insurance and all other incidental costs of taking the goods to Zimbabwean borders;  if we charge 20% of the GDP, actually it will be more than some rates of duty at the port of entry Hon. Chairman.  I am imploring the Hon. Minister to consider this item, probably to put a figure like $100 or so much than to put this 20%.  I think it will not be easy to administer.  I thank you.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  I thank the Hon. Member for his proposal. I think we should proceed with what is in the clause.  I did say that we will then spend the next couple of months to look into some of these to see if we can make further adjustments but we need to make progress.  I cannot just agree to every proposal, it needs to be properly analysed.

We are going to do a three-day retreat Mr. Chairman, as we debate the 2025 budget. We will have ample time to debate some of these issues. Hon. Members are free to raise these issues again as we do those consultations and debates – there will be ample time.  For now, I propose that we really proceed with what we have put on this Bill.  Thank you.

HON. HWENDE:  Point of privilege, Mr. Chairperson.  Why do you now ignore people?  Mr. Chairperson, I have a point of privilege.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I have not yet finished what I am doing, I will recognise you later. 

HON. HWENDE: I thought you had finished.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  No, we have not.

HON. HWENDE: Yes, but it is important. 

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Let me finish first.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you very much, I just wanted to add a subsection within Clause 6 in order to cater for the clarity that those paying presumptive taxes can pay in local currency. In fact, in the proposal, it says they shall pay in local currency. So, I want to propose a subsection 2 within that paragraph 6 or Clause 6 to read as follows; “every person liable for presumptive tax may pay the amount of the tax due in local currency at an official selling rate of exchange on the day of payment”. Just to make it clear. Thank you.

HON. HWENDE: Point of order Hon. Chairperson.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?

HON. HWENDE: My proposal was not to give an option of paying in either US or ZiG but for these sectors to be sectors that we exclusively say people must pay in ZiG, just like what we have done with other sectors as a way of promoting the use of ZiG. These people should pay in ZiG so that even the tax is written in ZiG.

   THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT POLICY (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you, I concur with that input Mr. Chairman. I will therefore reread for the sake of the Hansard. Subsection 2 within Clause 6, ‘every person liable for presumptive tax shall pay the amount of the tax due in local currency at the official selling rate of exchange on the day of payment. Thank you.

Amendments to Clause 6 put and agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, put and agreed to.

HON. HWENDE: Point of order Hon. Chairperson.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Before you give yourself the floor, when you say point of order, I have to recognise you. Hon. Hwende.

*HON. HWENDE: Thank you very much, I am sorry for that. My point of order is that there are some people that take medication, we are now hungry. The person who was supposed to bring us food can no longer give us food. We are unable to continue when we have people that have such conditions who are hungry, some of them might collapse. I suggest that we should adjourn so that we can continue next week. We can buy the food using the $200 that we have been given by the Hon. Minister Prof. M. Ncube. I thank you.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONIMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Chair and thank you Hon. Hwende for that proposal.  I am sensitive to what he is proposing, but I propose that we add another thirty minutes and then we call it a day.

          Clauses 7 to 9 put and agreed to.

On Clause 10:

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Thank you very much, I wish to highlight that this clause talks to what we call the rule to market regulation, which says that if you want to buy from a manufacturer, you have to have a valid tax clearance, you must be registered for VAT or else you pay 5%  withholding tax which is going to be collected by the manufacturer on behalf of the tax collection administration.  My suggestion to the Hon. Minister is that there are other people who buy from the manufacturers who are so small such that asking them to be VAT registered is outrageous in defiance of logic.  Let me give an example Hon. Minister.  A small ghetto bar which buys from Delta, if you look at their volumes and you say that they should register for VAT is not reasonable.  So, I suggest limiting the requirement to a valid tax clearance only and remove the request for having a VAT registration.  This is important because once we introduce this idea of VAT, we are actually forcing the majority of these people to get to the issue of 5% withholding tax.  The implication of that is that this small trader who will buy from Delta will inflate the price of their goods with a minimum 5% to spread the cost to the consumers.  So, in order to avoid that, I suggest that the Minister restricts himself to a valid tax clearance and remove the sentence which requires the registration for VAT.  I so submit.  Thank you.

HON. HWENDE:  On (h), real estate agencies registered or required to be registered under the Estate Agency Act, this category that you have put Hon. Minister,  you can see that black estate agents that we have are mostly new entrepreneurs who have just gotten through the course for real estate agents.  They are just beginners and the majority of them find it difficult to sell a house the whole year.  You put them in this category – my suggestion is that for now, let us exclude the real estate agents because the real estate business itself, those that have made it should be taxed and not individual agents.  So, we will need to exclude the real estate agents.  I thank you.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  I want to thank the Hon. Members for their contributions.  I think through this clause, we are trying to make sure that we do what Hon. Members have been yearning for.  So, we are trying to use the tax system to also formalise what is otherwise informal.  I thought that Members would welcome this. 

Secondly, also to deal with the issue of the route to market which also speaks to the informalisation issue, I am not too sure about this argument that perhaps requiring VAT registration will then force an increase in prices – I am not convinced.  One has to do a proper analysis to understand the real impact of this.  When we did it, we were quite convinced that this was a very good way to ensure that there is a proper route to market and that there is formalisation being promoted.

 On the issue of the real estate agents, the real estate as a sector has been growing and what you will find is that those with excess savings seek to preserve or invest their savings.  You will find some investing on the stock market, but the bulk of them instead of putting money under the pillow, are investing in real estate.  We have a boom in real estate right across the country.  Every other corner, new houses are coming up and new cluster homes are coming up.  It is a booming sector and now to say players in that sector ought to be excluded does not speak to how the structure of the economy and investment behaviour has tilted towards this real estate sector.  I really feel that this Clause 10 should be maintained as it is.  Again, I undertake that we can always re-examine these and do further analysis but we need to start somewhere.  I thank you.

HON. ENG. MHANGWA:  I have noted in the Minister’s response, particularly in this clause that the reference is always to the affluent.  When he talks of real estate, he is talking about cluster homes that are coming up.  He is talking about the high end.  Equally, I am compelled to think that as he speaks about the bars needing VAT, he is also referring to a Borrowdale bar.  He is not talking about the bar in the township.  I kindly exhort the Minister to consider the whole spectrum of the people under the same industry.  I so submit.

         *HON. NYABANI:  Thank you Chair.  On the issue of bottle-stores that are supposed to pay USD30 per month, they do not even get USD30 per month.  I am representing people in the rural areas who are not here.

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Hon. Nyabani, there is no issue of bars in Clause 10.   

         *HON. NYABANI:  I will look for it and bring it to you.  I want to tell the Minister because he knows where it is.  If he knows where it is, he can help us because all people will end up broke.

         *THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Hon. Minister, there is something that was said last and you may want to go ahead and comment.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I think what Hon. Nyabani was referring to is back in Clause 6 or somewhere else. I am happy to engage him off line to see if it is an area that we could look into as we go forward. I am always listening to new ideas and suggestions. If we go to Clause 10, I really feel that what we are dealing with from (a) to (i) under that clause, are professionally registered actors in various sectors. These are professionals in terms of various acts. I do not think we should leave anyone out. There should be an exception and we should not leave out real estate agents out of that list. I feel that we should include them. I am always flexible and we can always revisit these issues. Members should feel free to bring them up as we debate our way into the 2025 budget. I thank you.

Clause 10 put and agreed to.

On Clause 11:

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: This clause talks about the tax-free bonus threshold. I have got a feeling that to say we do not tax an amount which does not exceed, I think it is too low for our people looking at the circumstances that they face and the salaries that we get. So, I was of the opinion that USD700 does not buy a decent bed Hon. Chair. For us to say your bonus if it exceeds USD700, then it is subject to tax, to me again it is outrageous. Let us increase this bonus tax-free threshold to USD1000 or equivalent from the current USD700 as proposed by the Minister. Thank you.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you very much. We consulted on this proposal in Clause 11 and the threshold. We came to the conclusion after their analysis and consultations that USD700 equivalent or local currency was appropriate as a threshold. I am not too sure about coming up with other levels. We will need to do proper analysis on it as we do consider the impact that it has on equity considerations, but also revenue considerations. I propose that we stick to the USD700 for now and then Members are free to raise these issues later and we can do further analysis. Let us be comfortable with Clause 11 as is. I thank you.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Let me read something to you here from Standing Order No. 157 (1), “Members who wish to propose amendments to Bills must submit such amendments in writing and in proper form to the Clerk during the business hours of Parliament for that day, on the day before that on which they are to appear”. Subsection (2) says, “amendments may be handed to the Clerk at any time after the first reading of a Bill. Subsection (3), an amendment proposed to be moved in a Committee of the whole House must be in writing, must be signed by the proposer and handed to the Clerk”. What was your point of order Hon. Sangandira?

HON. SAGANDIRA: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think we need to agree that when the Minister is coming to Parliament, he is coming to consult us so that we can give our views. But if he is saying he has already consulted, that means the whole purpose of being here will be defeated. We do not want to have laws that can pass through Parliament but are already passed. I thank you.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I hear you, but the Minister has said he has taken note of your concerns. He has not changed anything, but he has taken note and he says in due course, we will see what we will do. Hon. Minister, maybe you want to add on something to what he has said.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: You summarised well Chair. I am always a listening Minister and I think you can judge by the way we have always connected business. As I said, when I am talking about consultation, I really mean analysis when we analyse the impact of some of these proposals before we bring them here. We consult because it is affecting people that the MPs represent. So, we go to these people and consult them in terms of players in the industry, the various employment organisations and so forth. That is what we do. We analyse that and try to understand the revenue implications and the equity implications. That is what I was referring to. We always stand ready to listen some more going forward, but let us start from here for now. I thank you Chairman.

*HON. MAKUMIRE: Mr. Chairman, I think we should adjourn the House because people will collapse here. The 30 minutes has come to an end.

*HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, you are there so that you Chair the whole House. Let the Minister speak because at 7.10pm, he asked for 30 minutes and now it is 18 minutes to 8. Let us be considerate.  He is the one who failed to provide food. We cannot be made to stay here. We have got people that are sick, who have got genuine reasons. But you as the Chair, you are pushing things instead of listening to us. It is not about pushing but we want to debate, but 30 minutes has lapsed and people are hungry. People want the debate to be rolled over to next week.

HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I propose that we stop at 8pm sharp, - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- so 15 more minutes I propose. Thank you.

HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I want to appeal to the Hon. Minister. I think the 15 minutes that you so request, we can still cover them on Tuesday. I think for the sake of our fellow Hon. Members that are on medication, that we would really want to be here to debate the Bill and do not want to leave the House before it is adjourned. I think let us consider and adjourn the House and we then come on Tuesday and we deal with it. Remember, we considered your suspension of the Orders of the day. Generally, it will be Government business on Tuesday. Thank you.

         *HON. HWENDE: I am not agreeing with the whole clause.  I want it to be removed completely but if the Minister is not agreeing, let us divide the House.

         *HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Mr. Chairman.  We were thinking that you were going to give us a ruling on what time the House is going to adjourn.  Today is Thursday, that is when we get fuel coupons.  From here, we are going to spend another one hour or two collecting those coupons.  If it was possible, I think another arrangement can be made so that when we finish, we will be having our coupons with us in here.  Mr. Chair, if you go to where we get our coupons from, you will be surprised.  Is there another way of balancing for the Bill to be concluded because tomorrow you will hear that Hon. Members have been mugged on their way…

         THE TEMPORARY CHAIPERSON: Hon. Hamauswa, the Chief Whips had agreed to get to eight o’clock p.m.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chair.  I want to respond to queries regarding Clause 12, if I understood well.  Clause 12 really is supportive of Clause 6.  All we are doing there, we are saying those professionals that are listed in Clause 6 are now on self-assessment.  So, they are being removed from presumptive tax through that Clause 12. That should bring consistence in terms of what we have done.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Clause 12 is only confirming what we have done already.

Clause 12 put and agreed to.

On Clause 13;

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTIMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): This has to do with the capital gains tax that we imposed on the players on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange in order to deal with the bubble on the Stock Market and we are easing the traffic requirements in terms of capital gains tax.  What we have done is, we have proceeded by way of Statutory Instrument (SI) but now we want to confirm this through an amendment Bill.  That is what it is all about.  It is actually a very positive move.  Thank you.

The Temporary Chairperson not having recognised Members wishing to contribute

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: On a point of order Mr. Chair.  You did not give us the opportunity to debate, you just referred to the Minister directly.  You were supposed to give us the opportunity to debate.  You just gave the Minister the opportunity to respond without allowing us to debate.  We have got to debate Hon. Chairperson.

THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: If you did not hear me, may be because you were doing something else. – [HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  No, you did not give us the opportunity, you can refer to the Hansard.]- Hon. Member, Hon. Hwende commented on this one and he said he did not agree with it.  Then I said, is there any further debate?- [HON. MADZIVANYIKA: That was on Clause 12 Hon. Chair, we are now on Clause 13.]- Okay, you want to debate Clause 13, please proceed. 

         HON. MADZIVANYIKA: On Clause 13 still has what you call a vesting period of six months. When we talk about the stock market, Hon. Chair, we are talking about long term investors who should bring their money to support the capital market of Zimbabwe.

         It is my suggestion that we repeal the six-month vesting period and leave it open like that so that we promote investors who want to commit their resource on a long-term position. I submit.  I thank you.

         THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):  Thank you Chair.  I hear what Hon. Members are suggesting that we should be even more lax there.  I think let us leave it at six months for now.  The reason why we introduced this measure was to deal with the speculative bubble that had emerged on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange where the players were now round tipping money made in the parallel market because of the loose monetary policy in the past and then round tripping that via the stock market, enjoying the gains from the stock market bubble and then they go back to the parallel market and start all over again.

         So, we want to maintain that and watch.  Again, we will look at the impact, but already since the announcement, because we did this through a statutory instrument, we have seen a very positive development on the stock exchange.  The market has rebounded and we feel that as is, this has given some relief to that market and I think let us accept it as it is for now.  We will consider it in future if we feel it needs to be amended again.

         HON. MUSHORIWA:  Hon. Chair, we indicate right and then we turn left.  You see we need to be clear as Government.  We want to make sure that what we say to investors and what we say to our people should be the same.  We are working on a projection that the economy is actually going in the right direction but your indication in this case indicates otherwise and that sends mixed signals and in my view, when you are dealing with your investors you need to make sure that at least people can actually have the chance to plan long term.

         So, my humble submission, Chair, is that the Minister should consider removing these six months.  It is not necessary.  Let us just leave it open. After all, there are other measures that are available to the Ministry that they can use to curb any abuses.  I thank you.

         HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  Hon. Chair, when we introduced the measure that we are now watering down through this clause that measure had an instant impact in pricking and bursting the bubble on the stock market which helped us to ameliorate the weakness in the Zimbabwean dollar back then. Since the watering down of that measure loosening things we have seen a positive benefit and the market has applauded us for this and we are working with the market on this.  They are the ones responding to this and we also consulted with them when we came up with this new measure which is more flexible.

         So, I think we should stick to it.  We do not want to overdo things and then have to reverse it because we have over loosened.  Again, we do not want to go into that situation where we then have to come back to the House and say we made a mistake, could we tighten again.  I think if we have got this six-month period in place, let us work with it and then we can always review.  I thank you.

         Amendment to Clause 13 put and agreed to.

         Clause 13, as amended, put and agreed to.

         HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO:  On a point of order.  The Minister had said that we are ending at 8.00 o’clock p.m. and this is 8.01 p.m.

         HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  We can adjourn the work of the Committee.  It is 8.00 o’clock so that Hon. Members can go and rest and have a good meal.  I thank you.

         I request that the Chairperson reports progress and then seek leave to sit again to continue with the debate for consideration of the Bill until the end.  I thank you. 

         House resumed.

         Progress reported.

Committee Stage to resume:  Friday, 20^th September, 2024.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE), the House adjourned at Six Minutes past Eight o’clock p.m.