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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 03 OCTOBER 2018 VOL 45 NO 08

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 3rd October, 2018

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER

INVITATION TO A COMMEMORATION OF THE WORLD DAY AGAINST TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  I have to inform the House that the Ministry of Home Affairs is inviting all Hon. Members from Matebeleland South Province and other provinces to a belated commemoration of the World Day against Trafficking in Persons to be held on Saturday, 6th October, 2018, at Dulivadzimu Stadium in Beitbridge.  The guest of honour will be Honourable Vice President K. C. D. Mohadi.  The event will be preceded by a march in the streets of Beitbridge to the stadium.  However, due to resource constrains, the Ministry is not able to meet the costs of attendance by Members. 

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  The following Hon. Ministers have leave of absence, Hon. Mupfumira, Hon. Prof. Muthuli Ncube – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, Hon. Chinotimba, order.  The other Hon. Ministers are Hon. Coventry and Hon. Haritatos. 

          HON. GONESE:  Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would like to appreciate that you have indicated to us that in terms of Standing Order No. 63, some Hon. Ministers have asked for leave of absence.  However, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that a lot of the Members in this august House have expressed their intention to pose questions to the Hon. Minister of Finance, whom I understand to be among those Ministers who have asked for leave of absence; my request to the Chair would be that the Hon. Minister of Finance be asked to come to this august House as soon as possible to make a ministerial statement to enable the representatives of the people who are the Hon. Members of Parliament here present to ask pertinent questions to the Hon. Minister in relation to very critical matters.  As you will appreciate Mr. Speaker Sir, on Monday, there was the Monetary Policy Review Statement as well as the Fiscal Statement.  I believe that those are very critical matters which affect the generality of the people of Zimbabwe. The whole populace is eagerly waiting for answers to those issues and I will therefore request Hon. Speaker that the Chair makes a ruling that the Hon. Minister of Finance be asked to come to give us a ministerial statement on those issues to enable us to seek the various clarifications which the people of Zimbabwe are waiting for – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Gonese.  Your request is unclear, to make a ministerial statement on what.  A Ministerial Statement is made on a particular subject of national interest which you did not indicate.

          HON. GONESE:  If I may beg the Chair’s indulgence to clarify the matters on which I feel that it is important to have a Ministerial Statement.  I think in my submission – [HON. TSUNGA: Inaudible interjection.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, you are lucky, I did not recognise  your face properly, I think it is the Hon. Member in glasses.  We are not talking about cholera here, so that interjection is unparliamentary, you are disrupting, leave the House.

          HON. TSUNGA:  I withdraw Mr. Speaker.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, leave the House.

          Hon. Tsunga was escorted out of the House by the Serjeant-At-Arms.

          HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order at the back there.  You can continue Hon. Gonese.

HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to clarify the aspects of which I think the Hon. Minister should be asked to come and give a ministerial statement.  Firstly in general, it is on the state of the economy because as you all appreciate, all hon. members in this august House and the public at large are very aware of the many challenges that the economy is going through.  More specifically, there are certain pronouncements which were made by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development, for instance that there is going to be a tax …

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Are you not going into details now?

HON. GONESE:  I thought that is what you would have wanted but in that case, I will say that it is on the general state of the economy and there are many issues which will arise, therefore I believe that the people of Zimbabwe are eagerly awaiting so that they can have clarification on those matters.  I thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  The Hon. Minister will be advised accordingly but he cannot come today because he has sought leave of absence in terms of our standing orders. 

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

*HON. CHINOTIMBA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage.  What is Government policy regarding police officers who are operating without vehicles which they can use to go to scenes of crime and even arrest the perpetrators of crime?

I have noticed that in my Constituency which is Buhera, buses are now leaving very early in the morning if not at night and people are now being attacked by hyenas.  I am asking Government to supply suitable cars for use in patrolling the area so that the movement of buses at odd times is prevented.  The movement of buses at odd times jeopardizes people’s lives. 

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO):  Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member for Buhera South, Cde Chinotimba wants to know the policy of Government in relation to the scarcity of transport facility for the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP).

I want to remind the Hon. Member that the transport system for ZRP is affected by lack of resources in Government but however, Government is attending to that requirement.  In short, that is my response to Hon. Chinotimba. I thank you.

*HON. CHINOTIMBA:  My supplementary question is that the Minister has stated that Government has no money but whenever we have a national disaster such as cholera, Government brings in a lot of money to fight the cholera.  As far as I am concerned, attacks by hyenas on people is also a disaster.  It needs to be declared a national disaster by Government so that the police in Buhera can be given cars to patrol the area.  That is why I would like the Minister to explain the difference – when there is a cholera outbreak and it is declared a national disaster, we have business people such as donors and Econet who assist, why cannot Government do the same and source transport from the same people?

*HON. MADIRO:  Hon. Chinotimba has said that when people are being attacked by hyenas, it is an urgent matter which is equally important and should be treated in the same way as cholera.  It should be treated as a national disaster.

Let me further explain that the transport capacity needed by the ZRP is 7 000 units for police to operate effectively.  Unfortunately, at the moment, our police force is operating with only a fleet of plus or minus 1 000. This means that we have a deficit of 6 000 vehicles which will enable the police to operate effectively.  I am promising Hon. Chinotimba that Government is spending sleepless nights trying to organise how to get funding  to meet the urgent requirements of vehicles for ZRP.  This will enable the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to incorporate and give priority to this need whenever they are working on the budget because of the important need for transport by ZRP.

The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage is also looking outside the traditional cry on the requirements from the Government. By this I mean that Government is looking at some other ways of funding the transport system of the ZRP. Hon. Chinotimba, be assured that Government is seized with the matter.

HON. MAVENYENGWA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Sen. Rtd. Air Chief Marshall Shiri. 

Is it Government policy for resettled farmers to compensate former farmers on their land development made on the land when they get resettled? 

THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  It is true that the new farmers have to contribute towards the cost of improvement on the farms and that money ultimately is used for compensating the former farmers.  I thank you.

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary to the Hon. Minister is that, maybe we may need the rationale behind making the beneficiary of resettled land to compensate the one from whom the land would have been expropriated.  Looking at the fact that firstly, the Act of Expropriation is that of Government…

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Member, ask your supplementary question.

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is - what is the rationale of transferring the burden of compensating the farmer who would have lost land on the beneficiary when it is directly the role of Government to do so? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

          HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SEN. SHIRI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. There are improvements that were done on the farms and the new farmer is utilising those improvements.  Quite a number of them now have 99 year leases and all the farmers with offer letters are looking forward to one day having 99 year leases.  It makes common sense that instead of labouring the tax payer, the person who is directly benefitting from those improvements contributes towards the compensation of the former farmer.

          Let me categorically state that the compensation is not being done directly from the new farmer to the former farmer but is being done through Government.  I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order last supplementary question.

          HON. GONESE:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I believe that this Government made a commitment with the coming in of the new dispensation that they were going to compensate the former farmers …

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, strictly supplementary question … - [HON. GONESE: Yes, it is a supplementary question Mr. Speaker.] – No statement.

          HON. GONESE:  Yes, in terms of that commitment, I want to find out from the Hon. Minister how far they have gone because that was a firm commitment made by the Government that on its part, it was going to compensate the former farmers?

          HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SEN. SHIRI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. When Government speaks, it does that on behalf of the people of Zimbabwe.  It does not have to go into detail as to how it shall raise those resources – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Unless clarification is sought and to an extent it has to be clearly understood that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – the policy is that the new farmer pays for the improvements on the farm and the money is used to compensate the former farmer – that is the Government’s position and as the money is not enough, they probably may chip in but the new farmer has to contribute.

          We also have the aspect of the leases that are paid by the farmers at the rate of three dollars ($3.00) per hectare per year.  All that money is meant to actually go towards the compensation of the former farmers.  I thank you. – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Point of clarity Hon. Speaker!] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  No point of clarification, you ask on supplementary question and - [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Inaudible interjection.] – It was done, we have already had enough supplementary questions. – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I asked a supplementary question Mr. Speaker and it was…] – Please sit down.  Thank you.

          +HON. MABOYI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care.  I recently visited Beitbridge West Constituency when we heard there was a cholera outbreak.  When I got there, I asked on their state of preparedness to the outbreak.  They said …

          +THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, please do not make narrations, ask your question Hon. Member.

          +HON. MABOYI:  My question is - how prepared are the people of Beitbridge in eradicating cholera?  We are aware that a lot of people travel through Beitbridge as it is one of the busiest inland ports with a high human traffic.  Should there be a cholera outbreak, how prepared are we as the State?

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister, did you understand the question?

          THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O. MOYO):  Mr. Speaker Sir, I appreciate the concern coming from the Hon. Member but I would like to point out that the Ministry of Health and Child Care is not just a Ministry of Health and Child Care for one area.  We are looking after the whole of Zimbabwe including Beitbridge and I want to assure the Hon. Member that everything is being done through the Provincial Medical Directors.  They have all been instructed throughout the ten provinces of Zimbabwe to ensure that we put all the requisite measures for the prevention of cholera and also enabled the local population to be appropriately educated on cholera. All the health facilities in all areas countrywide are well conscientised.

          So, I would not panic at this stage.  We have a command centre that looks at each and every province, clinic and district.  We receive information from all these areas on a daily basis, so the whole country is well covered because it is a national disaster and not just a disaster for Harare alone.  Infact, just to show you that we are extremely concerned, I was in Bulawayo last Friday following a request by one of the Hon. Members.  So, we do cover each and every area and everybody is well looked after, I can assure you.  I thank you.

          HON. SIKHALA:  Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.  The question is in terms of the provisions in our Declaration of Rights in terms of Section 77 of our Constitution that states that, “Every person in Zimbabwe has the right to (a) safe, clean and potable water; and that the State must take reasonable legislative and other measures, to achieve the realisation of this right.”

          Hon. Speaker, many people and several local authorities are unable to …

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, you have indicated – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, you have indicated the premise of your question. - [HON. SIKHALA: Yes, Mr. Speaker.] - Please go straight to the question.

          HON. SIKHALA:  The question to the Hon. Minister, Hon. Speaker Sir, is - what is his Ministry’s policy towards achieving this goal in many local authorities?  For example, the people of Chitungwiza are obtaining water once a week and only for eight hours and this is not the realisation of this right.  What is the Ministry’s policy towards achieving the realisation of this right?

          THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the concern in regards to water and other infrastructure that is lacking in our local authorities.  It is admitted that local authorities are responsible in terms of the enabling legislation after the Constitution quoted; they are responsible for water reticulation in their local authority areas.

          However, we are aware that Chitungwiza Municipality has not become a water authority nor is Epworth, Ruwa and Norton.  The water authority is with the City of Harare and we are convinced now that with the expansion of Harare City itself, it cannot cater for the expansion that has also happened in Chitungwiza, Ruwa, Epworth and Norton.  So, the Government has set up machinery which includes all local authorities giving the situation of the water in their areas.  The pipes, I have said this in this august House that the pipes in Harare, Chitungwiza, Ruwa and Epworth, most of them are very old.  Hence the water that is pumped from Morton Jeffrey Water Works no longer reaches the intended beneficiaries in all these areas.

          The 5 000 km of water reticulation, in Harare alone – most of them are rusted, rotten or are bursting and the local authorities are faced with this problem.  Government has now set up a Committee to look at all the problems of the local authorities.  I can assure this House that all the local authorities have responded very well; we now know and we are processing it through a Committee that has been set by the President, which I happen to chair.  It has other ministries because this is not a matter that one Ministry can deal with.

          So, the ministries that are responsible for water, roads and EMA, those ministries are part and parcel of the Committee that was set in the last ten years by the former President. Our working part has already assembled the requirements from all the urban local authorities, including Chitungwiza.  We are sure that when we meet as Ministers, we will deliberate on it. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development is a member and only this morning, I was briefing all his officials who are dealing with the budgetary process of this country.  It is an urgent matter because it is delayed maintenance by the local authorities and that delayed maintenance if you capitalise it, we are now looking at billions of dollars in order to correct the situation that is obtaining. 

I can assure this House as I said that we are looking at it in the short-term, medium term and long term to solve this matter of water reticulation.  It is not just Chitungwiza as I said, in the northern suburbs; there is not one area where residents are getting water.  These last few months we have had the outbreak of cholera in the epicentre of Budiriro and Chitungwiza.  We have had to divert water that could have gone to Chitungwiza and to other areas, particularly the northern areas to the epicentre and we are fully aware that Harare City Council as the water authority is not able to meet the demands of the populace in this area.  Thank you.

          HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Hon. Minister, I would like to know the rationale of local authorities collecting monies for water payments in the absence of delivery of such services, that is water is being paid for but there is no water that is being delivered to the residents, that is Chegutu West Constituency or Chegutu Municipality - [AN HON. MEMBER: That not a supplementary question but a new question.] -

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Dube, I forgive you because you are still new. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –The way you acted was to usurp the authority of the Chair.  It is for the Chair to make that ruling.  Thank you.

          HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, there are two ways residents are billed by the local authorities.  The first one, is you are billed just for the connection that you have with the water authority, that is a separate billing.  Even if you are not getting any water, as long as that connection is still there, you are billed.  Then the second one, you are billed on the basis of usage of that water.  Sometimes that usage, if you do not have metering, it becomes problematic.  So, I do not know the nature of the billing that is taking place in Chegutu, in particular Chegutu West but I can investigate if the Hon. Member gives me detailed information about what is going on.  Thank you.

          +HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Minister, there were houses which were constructed under Hlalani Kuhle/Garikai  and we have had people who are tenants in those houses paying for those houses since they were constructed.  I am saying, it is time these houses are handed over to the people to own them because they have been paying for quite a long time. What is Government policy?

          THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): Mr. Speaker Sir, yes I want to thank the Hon. Member and it is true that there are houses that were built under Garikai/Hlalani Kuhle. Those houses, in some cases, were built in areas which were not title surveyed and we are busy trying to make sure that where it has happened – I know that in Bulawayo and Beitbridge, we have some and we are busy trying to ensure that the planning is done and we engage people so that we can survey for title. As soon as we do that, we will be able to give title to the residents of those areas. We are aware. Thank you.

          HON. MADZIMURE: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Minister, we have seen that you have a policy which you call command agriculture which is assumed to have been a success. Can you tell the House the rationale of the Ministry putting a lot of money in the production of maize which is a crop that can easily be grown and also selling maize at $390 when the world market is $190. Secondly, there is no wheat in the country …

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, you ask one question.

          HON. MADZIMURE: Sorry, I am saying we are doing very little as a policy to promote the growing of wheat and soya beans that are in short supply whilst we are concentrating on maize.

          THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Command agriculture does not finance the growing of maize only. It includes other crops as suggested by the Member; wheat, soya beans and it also goes beyond that to include livestock. So, there is no bias towards one single crop.

The second question was on the rationale of buying maize at $390 whilst the international price was $190. Probably, the starting point should be to compare the cost of inputs. You realise that our inputs are much more expensive than in those countries where maize is being sold at $190 per tonne. Given the economic situation and economic reality in Zimbabwe, it makes sense that the farmers be paid $390 because anything less than that, they risk running at a loss.

          HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Minister, are you aware that some individuals are importing maize from countries like Zambia where they get their maize delivered into Zimbabwe at less than $200 and then resale that same commodity to the Grain Marketing Board?

          HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: I am not aware of that. If the Hon. Member has got information, we would appreciate if he brings it forward so that we take appropriate action.

          HON. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Sport. What policy do you have on Members of Parliament who are national heads of associations for sport? An example is Hon. Chiyangwa, ZIFA, Hon. Mukuhlani, cricket and Hon. O. Sibanda, football. What policy do you have to ensure that there is no conflict?

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND RECREATION (HON. SIMBANEGAVI): Thank you Hon. Mliswa for asking that question. There is no actual policy within the Ministry to prohibit Members of Parliament from being members of associations really. Section 129 (h) of the Constitution on the issue of appointments of Members of Parliament indicates clearly that a Member of Parliament can only not go to Parliament or should resign when he is a member of either a provincial or a local council or when he works for any Government entity. In this situation, ZIFA, Zimbabwe Cricket or any other association is not a public entity. Our Ministry does not deal directly with ZIFA or the Zimbabwe Cricket Association. We deal with them through the Sports and Recreation Commission, which is a statutory body. If we, as a Ministry deal directly with ZIFA, we would be charged with FIFA for interfering in football activities – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I know that probably one would wonder and say that probably being in ZIFA is a public office but as far as we know as a Ministry, a public office is defined as someone who is working and being paid by the Government. My understanding is that these Hon. Members are not working for the Government when they are in these associations because those jobs are not directly paid by the Government.

          HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, with due respect, the Sports and Recreation Act is under the Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation and these Associations are national associations which use the country’s national colours.  The issue that I asked Minister is in terms of conflict.  What corrective measure or policy do they have to ensure that there is no conflict?  The reason why I ask is, for example the Sports Committee invites Hon. Chiyangwa on ZIFA or Hon. Mukuhlani, best practice, corporate governance lacks. So what corrective measures or what policy do they have to ensure this does not happen because they can direct the Sport and Recreation Commission to amend the Constitutions of these national associations so that whoever becomes a Member of Parliament resigns.  That is what I am talking about so that there is no conflict.  What policy are they bringing to ensure that there is good governance?

          HON. SIMBANEGAVI: Hon. Speaker Sir, as I said, legally, there is no legislation that prohibits a Member of Parliament from being a member of ZIFA.  However, as the Hon. Member indicated, probably as a Ministry, we also need to look at it from, let me say a moral point of view and if necessary we will consider amending the legislation in order to take your views into consideration.   I thank you.

          HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Hon. Speaker – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjection.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, you will be next, do not be up standing.

          HON. KASHAMBE: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  Last year, the people of Seke Resident Trust lobbied that the tollgate along Seke road be moved further from where it is right now to 10 miles.  We got a confirmation from your office that that tollgate will be removed.  Do you have a timeframe as to when it will be removed?  I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that is a specific issue, it is not a policy issue – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down please, I have not finished.  The Hon. Member is advised to put that question in writing then the Hon. Minister will respond accordingly.

          HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker, I have got a question to the Leader of Government business in this august House.  It is a pity that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is not present, so my question to the Leader of the House is to ask the rationale behind the policy of restructuring the transaction tax from five cents a transaction to two cents in a dollar in a bid to purportedly address the budget deficit when the biggest challenge we have here is fiscal indiscipline and over expenditure not necessarily revenue and the quantum of revenue.   Why are you doing that?  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Biti, your good question has been covered by a request by Hon. Gonese whereby the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development is being asked to come to this Hon. House to give a statement on the same lines but more comprehensively on the state of the economy.  So, that issue should arise during that time and perhaps you may ask for questions in terms of clarification.

          HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question goes to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.  What is Government policy on disputes that have flowed now actually for four years, five years without a determination and mines are being cancelled irrespective of who first pegged and who subsequently pegged. I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that question does not relate to policy, it would appear it relates to some specific disputes which can be asked through a written question so that the Hon. Minister can answer in detail, whereby instances of unresolved mining disputes shall be categorized and therefore responded to by the Hon. Minister of Mines and Mining Development.

          HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I have a question for the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services.  We have seen in the last few months a number of companies getting webcasting and video on demand licences.  This has been happening in the absence of a substantive Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe.  My question to the Minister is, is this new Government usurping the powers and roles of the Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe.

          THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUTSVANGWA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I thank you Hon. Ndebele for such a good question.  I must say as the mandate of our Ministry demands, we are looking into all the parastatals.  We have just started going through the legislative framework – [HON. BITI:  Minister makachena.] – [Laughter.] – Can you protect me Mr. Speaker.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Members on my left there, if you are mesmerized – [Laughter.] – If you are mesmerized by the appearance of the Hon. Minister, please keep it to yourself.  Please go ahead Hon. Minister. 

          HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker for the protection.  I just wanted to assure the Hon. Member who has just asked the question about BAZ.  We appreciate the work which BAZ has to do and as a Minister who has been appointed hardly three weeks ago, we have already started working on that.  We need a board in place.  It is a constitutional legality and we need to put a board in place and you will find a lot of good things coming.  This Ministry’s mandate is about changing the image of this country.  It is about rebranding Zimbabwe. It is about making sure that we move together as Zimbabweans before we think of any other differences.  We will move together, we will take advice and suggestions.  We will bring all those ideas on the table so that we chart the right transformational development agenda which we need for this country.  Thank you.

          HON. NDEBELE:  Hon. Speaker, I believe I have not been answered.  The import of my question was to point out an illegality that her Ministry is presiding on.  They were issuing out licences fairly recently in the absence of that particular board which is mandated with issuing those licences and it is not lost to us as the opposition that the three companies that got those licences are pro-ruling party.  Thank you Hon. Speaker. 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  The last part of your question; I thought you were asking a question on behalf of the nation and not a political party.  You have to withdraw that part of the question.

          HON. NDEBELE:  Allow me to recant the last bit Hon. Speaker with all due respect.

          HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I think the Hon. Member seems to have more information about what could have happened and that kind of information we would welcome it - if he can send a paper on it. Who exactly got the licence?  Who got it illegally and we will certainly deal with it.  These are the issues which we are dealing with.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  Hon. Ndebele, you asked a very pertinent question.  Can you please provide details to the Hon. Minister? 

          *HON. MATAMBANADZO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and it is on the issue of machetes.  I am talking about the way people are fighting using machetes.  It is common in mining areas such as Kwekwe.  In my constituency, at least three to five people are murdered every day.  I would want to ask what is Government policy on this issue because that should be brought to an end.  They have gone to the extent of murdering their own wives in their homes.  What does the law say because even during the time of former President RG Mugabe it has been happening.  Why can you not stop this?

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order!  The question is specific and to some incidences.  The flip side of the question is, if you said you have reported the matter to the Police and no action has been taken, then your question would be very relevant.  Perhaps you may bring your question in writing so that you can give those instances in your written question.  Please stand guided accordingly. 

          HON. CHIKWINYA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker …

          HON. TOFFA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  What is your point of order?

HON. TOFFA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I note that from the Members that you are picking, the gender equality is very imbalanced.  I have noted just one woman so far being asked to debate.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  Hon. Member, maybe you came late.  There is an Hon. Member there, a lady who asked a question in Ndebele and there is Hon. Mkandla at the back who also asked her question in Ndebele. I have recognised Hon. Majaya after him.

HON. CHIKWINYA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.  When are we going to see the actualization of Chapter 14, Subsection 264, 265 and 266 with regards to devolution and establishment of Provincial Councils?  When are we having the Provincial Councils Act being brought to Parliament? 

THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO):  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I note the concern of the Hon. Member.  We are working very hard to ensure that an enabling Act to put into place the Chapter that he refers to, Chapter 14 of the Constitution by providing the Provincial Councils and Metropolitan Councils Bill which will be before this Parliament before the end of the year. I thank you.

          HON. GONESE: I have a supplementary question Hon. Speaker.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: What sort of supplementary question? This Bill was part of the Presidential Legislative Agenda pronounced a few weeks ago. So, to say when are you bringing the Bill here, I think it is a bit premature. Your supplementary question must be based on the question on devolution and the accompanying Act.

          HON. GONESE: Yes it is Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that in terms of Chapter 14 which has been alluded to and in terms of the establishment of Provincial Councils, they are supposed to be presided over by Chairpersons and the Metropolitan Councils by the Mayors of the Metropolitan Councils of Harare and Bulawayo respectively. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is for him to explain the rationale for the appointment of Provincial Ministers in the context of the provisions of the Constitution which clearly stipulate that those councils are presided over by the Chairpersons and Mayors respectively.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Questioner, can you link up your question properly because I do not see how?

          HON. GONESE: The question Hon. Speaker to the Hon. Minister is about the implementation of the provisions of Chapter 14 of the Constitution which provide for the establishment of those councils which I have referred to. In terms of the provisions of the Constitution which had been referred to, the provincial councils are presided over by Chairpersons who are nominated by the political parties which would have won the majority of seats in the provinces concerned and in respect of the Metropolitan Provinces of Harare and Bulawayo, those councils are presided over by the mayors of those cities. My question is how the Hon. Minister reconciles the appointment of Provincial Ministers of State for those provinces when we have got specific provisions in the Constitution for those provinces to be presided over by the Chairpersons? I would like the Hon. Minister to clarify that to us.

          HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker...

          THE HON. SPEAKER: It is Mr. Speaker Sir, handisati ndabuda panyanga.

          HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I apologise. Chapter 14 is very clear for provincial councils as he alludes to. Two persons nominated by the party with the majority of National Assembly Members will be put before the provincial council and they will select one of them to become the Chairperson. I cannot find the linkage which he wants me to link with the prerogative of the President to appoint Ministers, which Ministers can be specific in terms of their duties; spatial or national, and I cannot find the linkage myself. I am very clear that when it comes to the provincial council in the enabling Act, we will spell out as the Constitution requires how they will select the Chairpersons and those of the Metropolitan Councils. We will not labour because it is already nominated that the Mayor of Harare as the Chairperson and the second largest municipality or local authority will provide a Deputy Chairperson in Harare.  

          In the case of Bulawayo, there is no Deputy Chairperson. It just states that the mayor of Bulawayo shall be the Chairperson and the membership is elaborated up to the last persons who are the ten members who are selected by proportional representation and they are ten of them in the case of the provincial councils. So, I cannot get the linkage that he wants me to do, because the other one is the prerogative of the President. I thank you.

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My supplementary is based on the fact that the major concern is about the use of public resources. When people see a Chairperson of a provincial council and also an Hon. Minister for provincial affairs, the question is how will they avoid duplication of their duties whilst both will be drawing money from the public purse? Would it not be economic to have one of them doing that role without necessarily putting two people to run one province? I think that is the gist of the question Hon. Speaker. Thank you.   

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Perhaps you need to clarify further Hon. Minister?

          HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to allay the fears of this august House. Devolution is in two chapters in the Constitution. It is in Chapter 14 of the Constitution and it is in Chapter 17 of the Constitution. Subsection 301 of the Constitution tells us how these provincial councils, including the payment of that chairing person will be done. The Chairperson is not a member of the civil service but he is a member of the public and he is a public officer.

          So, in Chapter 17, the Minister of Finance is told how he must budget to include the resources that will go to those provincial councils. In subsection (1), it clearly says, capital expenditure for those local authorities and metropolitan councils will come from this august House. Subsection (2) of that same Section 301 now stipulates that as Zimbabweans, there are areas which are marginalised and there is a process of equalisation so that we bring the minimum standards of our communities to a level that is acceptable in education, health, electricity supply and in all the other service delivery issues that are bedeviling our people who live in marginalised areas or who are marginalised because certain services are not being done at the level that is required.

          Subsection (3) of that 301 stipulates that at list 5% of the national budget will be given to those local authorities and metropolitan and provincial councils. We expect that this clarity in terms of how devolution will be done will obviate the duplication that he is talking about and I cannot answer to the prerogative of the President who has come up with a lean Central Government and I make a judgement that this will exacerbate the expenditure. I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The Minister’s reply is so instructive that we should read our Constitution so that we do not have to ask questions that have answers in the Constitution. 

*HON. MAJAYA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.... 

*HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  I think the gender issue is now over-balanced.  I think you are now recognisig more women Members than men. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I have more sons who may easily want some granddaughters from them.  So, bear with me for today.

*HON. MAJAYA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am directing my question to the Leader of the House since the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development is not in.  My question is on the Women’s Bank which was opened. May I please know how the information is going to be passed on to women in rural areas?  How is the information going to reach them?

We have 60 women in the proportional representation representing women – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  The Hon. Minister to whom the question is being addressed to must hear the question and Members from this side where the questioner is coming from are making a lot of noise.

*HON. MAJAYA:  Once again, thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Leader of the House regarding the newly launched Women’s Bank.  We have some of the women in the rural areas and they are ignorant of the existence of such a financial vehicle.  How are you going to publicise or advertise this facility to the women?  I know that there are 60 women on proportional representation who are representing the women out there and when we held our meeting, most of the 60 representatives showed ignorance on the operations of this bank.

HON. SIKHALA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  We realised how the Chair has been tough from the beginning of these proceedings earlier when this House was opening, when the Speaker chucked out one of the Members of Parliament for disrupting parliamentary business. Mr. Speaker Sir, the question that was asked by Hon. Majaya was very important and she wanted to be heard in silence.  The behaviour of women seated there – booing this woman ... – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

Mr. Speaker Sir, all Members in this House are equal and they equally need the protection of the Chair. Justice must be done and the business must be conducted in a fair manner.  That is the point that I wanted to make Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  Thank you.  In future Hon. Sikhala, please indicate quickly the possible culprit so that we can deal with the culprit - point taken. 

HON. SIKHALA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I might not be able to identify some Hon. Members with their names but I can describe the waythey look.  The one who was making the most noise when the Hon. Member was asking the question is the one in a white doek there - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

THE HON. SPEAKER:   Order, order.  Thank you Hon. Sikhala.  The proviso is that the Chair must recognise as well and I indicated that it should have been done immediately so that action is taken.

Hon. Zwizwai, you do not point a finger at the Chair, please.

HON. ZWIZWAI: No I did not,  I am sorry if I did that.  I will never do that.

*THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS (HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and I also say thank you to the Hon. Member who raised the question regarding the establishment of the Women’s Bank. 

The Hon. Member showed some great concern because of the lack of information which is not reaching the grassroots where we have the majority of women who should know about the existence of a financial vehicle which is at their existence.  She also showed concern that fellow women Members of Parliament were also ignorant of the services offered by this bank.  I am saying, my apologies to female Members of Parliament because they maybe new in this House.  But, I remember last year, the former Minister of Women’s Affairs Hon. Chikwinya debated this issue in this House and she explained on the roles and functions of this Women’s Bank when she answered the question in this House.  I am also sure that the current Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development will be able to bring that information to this august House in such a way that all the women who are Members of Parliament will be so empowered that they will be able to disseminate/advertise this bank in the grassroots.

Let me say, in each ward we have an officer. His or her duty is to give out information about the Women’s Bank over and above the other duties.  If there are other areas that are not getting this information, you can inform us and we will ensure that our teams go there.  We will advertise on radio, television and newspapers so that they get information because women should benefit.  That is Government’s policy.  I thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I will ensure that next week Honourables Mamombe, Toffa and Chibaya will start the ball rolling.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

TITLE DEEDS FOR GWERU TENANTS IN GOVERNMENT RENTED HOUSES

2. HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to state when Government will issue title deeds to tenants in Government houses in Gweru that were acquired under the rent-to-buy scheme.

HON. MLISWA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  This is an administrative issue.  We seem not to have some of the Order Papers, I think not many were printed, so we are having to share.

THE HON. SPEAKER:    My apologies for that, but Hon. Minister you have the answer.

THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO):  Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not have the answer to that last one but the first ones, I have the answers.  I will bring the answers next week. 

IMPROVEMENT OF WORKING CONDITIONS FOR OFFICERS OF THE NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY

8. HON. B. DUBE asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and   Parliamentary Affairs to state when working conditions for officers of the National Prosecuting Authority will be improved, including provision of decent offices.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I request that I answer this question next week.  I thank you.

ACCOMMODATION FOR MAGISTRATES IN MBERENGWA DISTRICT

9. HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to state when the Judicial Service Commission will provide accommodation for Magistrates in Mberengwa District who are currently operating from Zvishavane District.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. 

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Why do you not allow the handover takeover to take place?

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Mr. Speaker Sir, it is so important that we put things on record...

THE HON. SPEAKER:  No, you are not being stopped. Can you allow the handover of the chairmanship.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, with clear recognition as well to the Deputy Speaker.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is paramount that you note that questions which were put to the attention of Ministers last week, Ministers are putting to it today that they are not ready to answer those questions.  It must be a matter of concern to the House.  I implore through your office Mr. Speaker Sir, for Hon. Ministers to take note of questions when they are put across to the attention of Ministers.  It is very paramount.

Hon. Ziyambi having stood up whilst Hon. Mutseyami was still on the floor.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister of Justice, can you allow him to sit down?  Your point is noted Hon. Mutseyami.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not think it is appropriate for the Hon. Minister to be emotional about national issues.  Just simply take things easy then we move.  I thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Mutseyami, you have made your point and I have referred the matter to the Leader of the House.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think Hon. Mutseyami is not being truthful.  We have been here since morning.  When we came, we had a meeting on Standing Rules and Orders and I just got the responses now because we were in the meeting.  He is referring to Hon. July Moyo who is not a Member of the Standing Rules and Orders Committee.  When we came here in the morning, we did not know we were going to be here until now.  We had a meeting until well after lunch and I did not have an opportunity to go back to the office to verify the answers that I got.  When I requested that I bring the answer next week, it was because he is also aware we were together with him in that Committee.  He is pretending and trying to speak to the gallery when he knows that we were together – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order  Hon. Zwizwai!

HON. ZWIZWAI:  Sorry Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Thank you Hon. Ziyambi.  Your reply is correct because you did not have time to proceed to your office.  We finished almost at 2.00 o’clock, so it was not intentional Hon. Mutseyami and I am sure you can vouch for that – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]-

THE HON. SPEAKER: Under which standing order? – [Laughter.] -

PROGRESS ON INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE SHOOTING OF CIVILIANS BY SOLDIERS

10. HON. B. DUBE asked the Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs to update the House on progress of investigations into the shooting of civilians by soldiers on 1st August, 2018.

THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS AFFAIRS (HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI):  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Allow me first to thank the Hon. Member for the question that he has asked.  Madam Speaker, I am sure the Hon. Member is aware that on 9th September, 2018, His Excellency the President swore in the Commission of Inquiry investigating the events of 1st August, 2018.  The terms of reference of the Commission are such that it reports directly to the appointing authority who is none other than His Excellency the President, who in turn decides on when to share details of the progress with the nation.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, I do not have any updates to give to this Honourable House, neither do I have the mandate to do so.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

HON. HAMAUSWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Madam Speaker, the Hon. Speaker whom you have just replaced, made a ruling when Hon. Chinotimba was making a speech in reply to the Presidential Speech to the extent that this House cannot deliberate on the incidents of 1st August, 2018.  The import of that ruling is such that we cannot provide oversight over the Executive.  I want you to explain to us how are we going to raise our concerns with regards to the 1st August incident under such a ruling by the Chair.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Your point of order is noted Hon. Member.  I think for now, let us wait for the Commission to do its work.  After the Commission has given us its results of the investigations, then I think all Members will be free to ask for any clarification on the matter.

HON. HAMAUSWA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.  I by no means intend to interrogate your ruling, but in terms of Section 119 of the Constitution, the Executive is accountable to Parliament and the Executive does not dictate the pace under which Parliament superintends it.  So, we cannot be told by the Executive when we provide our oversight.  We must be independent of the Executive because we are separate in terms of functions and powers and therefore, that ruling simply clips our wing to provide oversight to the Executive.  We must respect the Constitution.  So, for Ministers to come and say we are not able to answer yet Parliament is playing its oversight, it is usurping the powers of Parliament.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:   I hear you Hon. Member, but the Speaker’s ruling is final.

ACCOMMODATION FOR MAGISTRATES IN MBERENGWA DISTRICT

9.  HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to state when the Judicial Service Commission will provide accommodation for Magistrates in Mberengwa District who are currently operating from Zvishavane District.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Let me start by thanking Hon. Zhou for posing this pertinent question and the question speaks to the everyday challenges that the justice system is facing which is the welfare of our Magistrates in both rural and urban areas.  This question came at a relevant time when the justice system is working towards a vision of achieving accessible world class justice through providing accessible, efficient and effective justice delivery.

Madam Speaker, the Judicial Service Commission is working towards decentralisation of courts and other justice sectors to areas where there are no courts.  This can be evidenced by the opening of Mutare, Masvingo High Courts and many other magistrate courts including Mberengwa Magistrate Court.  In doing so, we are facing financial challenges in establishing the courts as well as building accommodation for staff members.  Most of the money we are using to establish these courts is coming from donors and well-wishers.  Currently, we are providing temporary accommodation to our magistrate by renting a house for them.

Madam Speaker, the community where the Mberengwa Magistrate Court is located is very small, making it difficult to find proper rented accommodation for our magistrate manning this court.

  Alternatively, we chose Zvishavane considering it is only 40km from Mberengwa and also that it is a town where we could find proper rented accommodation.  From this regard, Madam Speaker, the magistrate at Mberengwa was accommodated in Zvishavane because that is where suitable accommodation was found and as soon as we build suitable accommodation in Mberengwa, the magistrate will be moved to Mberengwa as requested by the Hon. Member.  The Judicial Service Commission is working towards improving the welfare of all the magistrates, not only in Mberengwa but everywhere by providing them also with accessible vehicle loans and accommodation.  In the same mode accommodation for our magistrate at Mberengwa is a top priority when we get resources.  I thank you.

EFFECTS OF OPERATION RESTORE LEGACY

          11. HON. SIKHALA asked the Minister of Defence and War Veterans to state:

          (a).    the number of people who died during the period of “Operation Restore Legacy”;

          (b).    the number of prominent and non-prominent Zimbabweans who have been exiled due to the effects of “Operation Restore Legacy” and;

          (c).    whether the Government guarantees the security and safety of people in exile if they return to Zimbabwe.

          THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS AFFAIRS (HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI): Madam Speaker, let me start by thanking Hon. Sikhala for asking this question. Firstly, the question does not specify the cause of deaths he is asking about. As you are aware that, Operation Restore Legacy spanned over the period 17th November, 2017 to 18th January, 2018, if the Hon. Member was referring to people who died of the various ailments, then that is best answered – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – by the Registrar General’s Office that deals with registration of births and deaths.

          However if the Hon. Member is referring to victims of casualties of Operation Restore Legacy which I believe he was Mr. Speaker Sir, the answer is none. As far as we are concerned, no one was killed during this operation.

          Madam Speaker, since the coming in to power of the new dispensation in November 2017, the new Government never at any time officially ordered anyone into exile. Instead, those that purport to be in exile left the country during the operation and did so on their own volition and for reasons best known to themselves. In this regard, the Government cannot give any statistics of such persons. Madam Speaker, Zimbabwe’s immigration laws allow people to freely travel out of the country and back as long as they are in possession of their valid passports. We therefore cannot refer to people who skipped the country to evade the law as people who have been exiled. If anything, that is self imposed exile.

          Madam Speaker, I have alluded to the fact that the Government has not exiled anyone and therefore is not a threat to the life of anyone. Those that are in self imposed exile know better why they are staying outside the country. A number of individuals who were in such situations have returned home and they are staying here safely and freely. Examples of such people are former Vice President Mphoko, Former Minister of Local Government Mr. Kasukuwere and his brother Dickson Mafios as well as the Former Foreign Affairs Minister, Walter Muzembi.

          However, it should be noted that if any of those people in self-imposed in exile have any criminal cases, they should come back and account for their cases in the courts of law as is happening with some of them. I thank you Madam Speaker.

          HON. SIKHALA: Haa unoti iwe chiiko Musanhi, kumeso kunenge kwegudo – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order. That is unparliamentary Hon. Member, may you withdraw. Please may you go out Hon. Member [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

          HON. SIKHALA: I withdraw. Long ago I said I withdraw. I withdraw but however Madam Speaker, you must notice and also understand the principle called compensation. When you hit someone, you must expect to be hit back in equal measure. He provoked me and he should not have expected me to fold my arms. I had to hit back but in equal measure. He must also withdraw the insults he threw to me. He initially threw insults to me …

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, I just said withdraw your statement.

          HON. SIKHALA: Madam Speaker, I have withdrawn…

          HON. HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order. Hon. Member, may you withdraw.

          HON. SIKHALA: I have withdrawn Madam Speaker but however, I also wanted to remind the Chair that he is the one who provoked the fight and I applied the principle of compensation whereby, you hit back in equal measure but I withdraw Madam Speaker. I have a supplementary question to my written question that I gave to the Hon. Minister of Defence and War Veterans.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. I am waiting for you.

          HON. SIKHALA: Madam Speaker, I wanted to have a follow-up question to the Minister’s response on the number of people. I asked that question in respect of the Minister and that is why I said people who died during the period of ‘Operation Restore Legacy’. Unfortunately, she wanted to make jokes and funnies over the ambiguity of the question.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member. You are not taking this House seriously. Order may you sit down.

          HON. SIKHALA: My supplementary question is, Madam Speaker, the…

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, may you sit down. Hon. Member you are using unparliamentary language. May you please go out?

Hon. Sikhala was escorted out of the Chamber.

REVIVAL OF MNENE MISSION HOSPITAL NURSE TRAINING SCHOOL

13.   HON ZHOU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to state when Government will revive Mnene Mission Hospital Nurse Training School.

     THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O. MOYO): I would like to thank Hon. Zhou for the question he posed to my Ministry. We have never had a general nurse training school at Mnene. In actual fact what happened was that soon after Independence in 1980, Mnene Hospital was offering an upgrading course for nurses who were state certified generally known as the SCNs to state registered nurses. These cadres went in already with the state certified certificate and then eventually they would graduate with a diploma in nursing.

These are courses which ran for some time until all the state certified nurses were upgraded to state registered nurses countrywide. It was just a short course which was strictly designed for the purpose of upgrading the state certified nurses to state registered nurses.

The mission hospital currently runs the midwifery training programme and that trains the state registered nurses who are already qualified to midwives – so that is at a higher level. It also offers up skilling of primary care nurses which is another cadre to midwifery. In regards to the general freeze in recruitment and non expansion of the establishment, the Ministry of Health and Child Care has now scaled down on the number of students for general nurse training programme throughout the country. This therefore means that Ministry of Health and Child Care is not considering opening new schools.  It only makes sense because of the fact that there have been a lot of nurses who have qualified through these schools and they did not manage to get any positions to work as qualified nurses.

XRAY AND CIT SCANNING MACHINES FOR MBERENGWA GOVERNMENT HOSPITAL

14.           HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to state when Government will provide X-ray and CIT scanning equipment to Mberengwa Government Hospital considering that patients have to travel to other districts for such services.

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O. MOYO): Again I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking this question. Mberengwa District Hospital will soon receive a digital X-ray machine being procured under the Ministry’s Health Levy Fund and the tender is being conducted by Natpharm. However, there are no immediate plans to procure a CIT scan which is a bit more complex for a district hospital as that is targeted for provincial hospitals. All CIT scans require extra professional radiological knowledge to be able to produce the appropriate report. It would not make any sense because we do not have radiologists based at the district level.

Currently CIT scans are available at provincial hospitals like Mutare, Chinhoyi, United Bulawayo Central Hospital, Harare Central, Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals, Masvingo and at Chitungwiza Hospital.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF OUT-PATIENTS DEPARTMENT AND DOCTORS HOUSES IN MBERENGWA

15.    HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to state when funds for the construction of the Out-Patients department and doctors houses at the Mberengwa Government Hospital will be disbursed

          THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O. MOYO):  The Ministry is in the process of upgrading Mberengwa Hospital to a standard district hospital.  However, in the financial year, we did not get any funding for the project from Treasury though we had made a bid for it.  We are in the process and are going to include Mberengwa hospital once again in the Ministry’s capital project bid for 2019.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

COLLECTION OF ROYALTIES FROM MINES IN MBERENGWA DISTRICT

 

16.    HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to state the amount of royalties collected from mines operating in Mberengwa District to cater for gold miners in the area.

HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, it is important that when something good happens one says it.  I am pleased with the commitment of the Ministers to answering these questions.  In the last Parliament we would sit here and from question 1 to 5 no-one would be there.  So, I would like to commend you for being here to answer these questions.  You must keep up the good job.  Well done.

-         [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] -

          THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO):  From records of royalties collection by the Mineral Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe from 2013 to 2018, a total of $18000 was collected.  This amount is with respect to chrome $16952 and emeralds $1048.  It may be possible that some Small Scale Miners might have contributed to royalty collection but the information is not disaggregated to reflect the full amount of royalties collected from miners in Mberengwa district.  MMCZ collects royalties from exporters of mineral commodities on behalf of ZIMRA, so you find that some – notably chrome supplies, they would collect and aggregate the chrome with what comes from Mberengwa or  Zvishavane.  So, it becomes very difficult to assign it specifically to Mberengwa.  So, whilst I have given this figure, it is not as accurate because of the nature of the information.  Thank you Madam Speaker.

          HON. MLISWA:  Hon. Minister, the issue of royalties is a bit confusing because you have rural district councils that also collect and MMCZ is also collecting.  This is what has made investors not to come into the country.  They seem to be paying so much yet we should have one centre and just making one payment.  So, what measures are you taking to ensure that there is just one point where they pay and this covers everything?  I thank you.

          HON. CHITANDO:  I would like to acknowledge the very valid question raised by Hon. Mliswa.  The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development in conjunction with the Ministry of Finance were working on what was being termed the Consolidated Fiscal Regime for the mining sector.  There was a lot of input which was done but I must admit that job was not completed and as we move forward the Hon. Member is very right in his observation.  There is a multiplicity of charges and taxes which are levied on mining companies and the whole idea of the consolidated fiscal regime of which a draft paper had been prepared at the Ministry of Finance but had not advanced further.

Further consultation and implementation is meant to make the whole process simpler where there will be fewer taxes which are much simpler and easier to implement.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

          HON. CHINYANGANYA: My question is  - what is the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development doing to correct the injustice that is prevailing.  Only RDCs can collect royalties from mines but urban local authorities do not collect royalties from mines?

          THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO):  The point is noted but that point is being addressed in the proposed Consolidated Fiscal Regime, which looks into what is the way forward in terms of the charges in the mining industry.

ESTABLISHMENT OF A GOLD BUYING CENTRE IN MBERENGWA DISTRICT

17.    HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to state whether there are plans to establish a gold buying centre in Mberengwa District to cater for gold miners in the area.

          THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO): There are a number of gold buying methods which are employed by Fidelity Printers and Refineries in mopping up gold produced by Small Scale Miners.  Some of the buying methods include:

 a). Purchasing through custom milling centres in the area which are accredited gold buying entities by Fidelity Printers, which is capacitating these custom millers in buying gold recovered at their facilities. 

b). Accredited gold buying permits that are delegated to buy by Fidelity Printers. 

But with respect specifically to the question to establish a gold buying centre in Mberengwa district, this depends on the economic viability of running that centre, which is also largely dependent on the quantities of gold produced in the area and the cost of running the centre.  In an effort to increase gold production, Fidelity Printers in conjunction with the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development is looking at the possibility of increasing the number of gold buying centres and Mberengwa is on the list.

Over and above that, with respect to gold service centres which are different from the gold buying centres, Government has to date established only one centre in Bubi.  Four more centres are due to be commissioned by the end of December.  An evaluation is being done in all gold producing districts to ascertain the viability of establishing such gold service centres.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

HON. GABBUZA:  I have a supplementary question.  The Minister indicated that Fidelity has several strategies to mop up the gold but the same Fidelity does not buy below a certain weight of gold.  How do those small weights or quantities get mopped up?

HON. CHITANDO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The issue which the Hon. Member has raised is very valid and my Ministry is currently in discussion with Fidelity Printers to find a way forward as far as the purchase of small quantities of gold is concerned.  I should be in a position to give an answer in the next week or two.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

          HON. MUSANHI: Hon. Minister, what is your Ministry doing to equalise the retention that is retained by gold producers and those who are mining other basic minerals?

          HON. CHITANDO: Madam Speaker maam, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question.  I am sure the Hon. Member is aware that in the Monetary Statement which was published on Monday, the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe has introduced retention for gold producers which previously was non-existent.  This retention has been introduced at a rate of 30% which is more or less in line with the retention which has been provided for the other minerals.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

STATUS OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE MBERENGWA-MNENE ROAD

18.   HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain why the contractor for the Mberengwa- Mnene road construction has removed the equipment from the site and to state whether the tarring of the road will be complete before the rain season.

THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG. MATIZA): Madam Speaker, the contractor removed his equipment on site because he was facing some cash flow challenges. We are currently looking for equipment from other contractors for the project but work has now resumed.

The road will not be completed before the beginning of the rain season not because of the delays but the scope of the current works is to surface 14 km and by the end of the year, the target is to have completed half of the work.

It is worth noting that as road construction projects continue to increase, we are likely to reach equipment market shortage. A possible solution would be to seek ways to increase capacity and not rely excessively on external contractors. This can be pursued by capacitating CMED (Pvt.) Limited through ZINARA or fiscal funding and by putting provisions in our BOT’s for equipment capitalisation. CMED will then be responsible for equipment hire to the Department of Roads. I thank you.

HON. MAMOMBE:  I would like to know the criteria that you are using in terms of constructing the roads especially coming to the rain season.  Can you just tell us which roads you are prioritising or are you prioritising more roads than the other ones? 

HON. ENG. MATIZA:  My Ministry has categorized roads.  We have four categories of roads which my Ministry superintends; the Department of Roads, the District Development Fund (DDF) which is under the President’s Office (OPC), the Urban Roads which is under the Local Government and the Rural District Roads. 

In each of the provinces, we have prioritized a minimum of three roads.  Our Members of Parliament are free to meet our provincial resident engineers who will give you a whole range of the roads there and their prioritisation.  I thank you.

HON. GABBUZA:  The Minister said the contractor on this particular road pulled out because of cash flow problems – I know the Minister is new but could he have found out whether due diligence was done to establish whether this particular contractor had enough money before he even started the project.  Why should we give contracts to people who have no cash flow?  Why should they have started at all?  How did he win the tender?

HON. ENG. MATIZA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  In awarding contracts, we award to deserving contractors but in the process of construction, we have no jurisdiction or powers to manage their finances.  Some are able to manage their finances and cash flows throughout the project but some unfortunately are not able to do so.

Our recourse to such an incident is that if a contractor defaults or is not able to finish or withdraws from the contract, we will have to get another one in which case we have done the same. 

HON. MLISWA: Hon. Minister, we need to understand how the payments are made.  Is it the ZINARA money which is under your Ministryis it you who finds a contractor or it is the local authorities because what then happens is; while you disburse money, the local authorities then do a tender process, whether they do it or not but the companies which are given the tender do not do a good job. 

What role does your Ministry play from an oversight point of view to ensure that the money that you have given to the local authorities, the work is done properly because there is a situation where at times you are paying these contracting companies twice as much?  They do a job and stop.  When prices go up, they want more money or they fix a road but it is not well done; come rain season, you see the potholes again. Money keeps going to one company and they keep making money.  What corrective measures are you doing to monitor and to supervise that ZINARA money that you would have given to a local authority to find a contractor, to see whether the work has been done well?  Do you have a certificate of compliance that you sign before you pay because you also do not pay in advance before the work is done?  The work must be done properly where as ZINARA and your engineers are satisfied that the work that has been done has been done properly.  If it is not done properly, we still come back here and we ask you why were the roads not done properly.  You need to clarify that so that the money is put to good use once and for all.  

HON. ENG. MATIZA:  The question is - how do you do quality control of the projects?  First of all, the role of ZINARA is key to this whole process.  ZINARA disburses the funds and helps the local authorities in the cash flow management as in project management. ZINARA also audits – that is on the money side.  In terms of the physicality of the project as it is being implemented, also ZINARA has engineers to look at the project but as a Ministry, we have our resident engineers who are supposed to look into the quality of those projects. 

I must admit though that we have been running short of skilled supervising manpower; civil engineers do that.

          However, we have come up with a new way of doing things.  We have money that we have been given by Treasury and it is within that amount of money that we are going to out-source that element of supervision.  Taking it from the consultants, engineers who are all over the country – many of them, we are now bringing them into the project management to make sure that the quality of work on our roads does not fail.  I thank you.

WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE

TITLE DEEDS FOR RESIDENTS OF CHITUNGWIZA NORTH

1.  HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing when Government will offer title deeds to residents of Chitungwiza North whose houses were acquired under the rent-to-buy scheme.

THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO):  Mr. Speaker Sir, let me start by thanking the Hon. Member for asking the question.  However, let me inform this august House that Chitungwiza North encompasses both Government and Council houses.  Government, in the mid 1990s (1995-1996) initiated a home ownership scheme for different categories of home seekers countrywide.  In those schemes, Government would construct the dwelling structures to completion and qualifying beneficiaries would then move in.  A down payment of 50% of the purchase price which constituted the deposit was a condition precedent to occupation of the dwelling unit.  The balance would therefore be amortised over a 24 year period.

In the case of Government’s Seke Unit B Flats, the scheme is surveyed to title and as such, title deeds (sectional title for flat units) are being processed for all those beneficiaries who have fully paid up for their properties.  Mr. Speaker Sir, let me also emphasize that the process of title registration is triggered on an individual basis where a beneficiary is fully paid up in respect of the purchase price of the property in question.  Beneficiaries concerned should therefore approach the Ministry with a view to get assistance in obtaining title.  However, according to Chitungwiza Town Council, tenants wishing to obtain title for the houses they currently occupy should observe the following:

They should approach the council with their proposal and fill in the conversion of rental accommodation to home ownership form(s).

They need to clear all council dues and obtain a Rates Clearance Certificate of Occupation from their Planning Section.  The property should be title surveyed.

Council will then issue a recommendation for title which would then be attached to the above mentioned documents and forwarded to the Ministry’s Urban State Lands Department for processing of title.

Similarly, applications are processed as and when they come.  Individuals meeting the outlined criteria are eligible for title.  However, those occupying tied houses (that is, those occupying houses under umbrella lease for specific organisations) are not eligible.  Those in Government properties and are facing challenges on the same are encouraged to approach the Ministry for assistance.  I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF ROAD FROM CHINEMBIRI PRIMARY SCHOOL TO CHITUNGWIZA TOWN CENTRE

4.  HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Minister of Local Government, Public Works     and National Housing to state when the road in Ward 21, in  Chitungwiza, which stretches from Chinembiri Primary School to the town centre will be        rehabilitated.

THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO):  Mr. Speaker Sir, the road in question is Marufurira Road which links Mharapara to Chirambahuyo.  Council requested quotations and the deadline was the 27th of September 2018.  The bids have not been opened yet but the tender validity period is 90 days to Christmas Day.  The City Council will reconstruct the road and if the tender is awarded, 21 days will be required for mobilisation of equipment for contractor to come on site.  The section is 1.1km and the council will require two months from earthworks to resurfacing.  I thank you.

Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.

MOTION

PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS

First Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.

HON. KWARAMBA:  Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. S. SITHOLE:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 4th October, 2018.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG. MATIZA), the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.

 

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National Assembly Hansard NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 03 OCTOBER 2018 VOL 45 NO 08